Hayford at Assembly

dolfan · Postby **dolfan** » November 3rd, 2009, 4:40 am

I'm no Hayford follower like you guys do in the sense of his particular pastoral ministry. He's got his feet too far in the WOF thing for me, but setting that aside, I have always found one particular thing about him appealing --- his demeanor. And, it's odd that dawgs10 doesn't like him for the keynote because of that very thing. I'm pretty sure ol' Jack Hayford has done his share of shouting over the years, dawgs. One thing, though, that I think everyone from all evangelical Christian walks can probably agree is that Jack Hayford is not directly tainted with scandal. He has managed, in spite of his close connections with people mired in scandal, to keep a reputation as a leader. Now, I don't know about you and I'm even slow to admit this of him myself, but ---- wasn't that one of the criticisms about Jesus? There's something about Hayford, as I understand and know of him, that sets him apart from the actions of the people he pastors, like TBN's Crouches. I'm intrigued by him to say the least, and I find his calm manner of delivering the Truth (and I have no quarrel with his pentecostal faith any more than I do anyone's) refreshing.

As I type this, though, I think it would be a hoot and a real benefit if the Assembly had a guy like Bill Hybels or John Ortberg come to speak as a keynote speaker. I'd pose this question: MUST the guest keynote speaker be a pentecostal? If so, why?

CantBCoy · Postby **CantBCoy** » November 3rd, 2009, 4:41 am

Didn't Paul teach someone to death once?

paul · Postby **paul** » November 3rd, 2009, 5:27 am

quote="dolfan"

As I type this, though, I think it would be a hoot and a real benefit if the Assembly had a guy like Bill Hybels or John Ortberg come to speak as a keynote speaker. I'd pose this question: MUST the guest keynote speaker be a pentecostal? If so, why?

Several years ago, J.C. Cagel, then Sunday School Superintendent brought in Dr. Elmer Towns to speak during his assembly program.

Elmer Towns...(SBC) whould be Mister Sunday School , as much as jack Hayford is Mr. Pentecostal. Elmer Towns was not well received, he was not of the fold at that time. But this is not just limited to pentecostalism. I remember in 1985, Dr. W.A. Criswell invited me to First Baptist Church in Dallas Texas. Talk about a cold reception, not from him or the people, but the Pastoral Staff. Dr. Criswell had one of the purest Shepherds heart I had ever come across.

Thankfully times have changed.

fezzik · Postby **fezzik** » November 3rd, 2009, 6:46 am

paul wrote:Thankfully times have changed.

I'm not so sure they have changed for everyone. Most maybe, but not everyone.

free · Postby **free** » November 3rd, 2009, 7:39 am

I like JH and think he will do a fine job...I'm waiting for the year that Francis Chan is the keynote speaker...That will be something!

Mike Vande · Postby **Mike Vande** » November 3rd, 2009, 11:15 am

I think your leadership should make all attendees sign a statement saying if they fall asleep during Hayford's teaching, they can no longer say anything to or about anyone who falls asleep during their sermons from then on...

Postby **Pastor Gary** » November 3rd, 2009, 12:27 pm

free wrote:I like JH and think he will do a fine job...I'm waiting for the year that Francis Chan is the keynote speaker...That will be something!

Francis is often a keynote at the Hawaiian Islands Ministries annual conference. Met him, talked one-on-one for a long time, and LOVE his heart and passion. One of my favorites.

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » November 3rd, 2009, 2:54 pm

CantBCoy wrote:Didn't Paul teach someone to death once?

yep, he feel out the window.

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » November 3rd, 2009, 3:07 pm

alot of people have a great heart. alot of people are great leaders. alot of people are great teachers. and then you have church services. please preach to me. there are alot of seminars. do we want church growth seminars or do we want the assembly. i can pay a few hundred dollars and go to a church growth seminar if i want.

Postby **Pastor Gary** » November 3rd, 2009, 4:45 pm

dawgs10 wrote:alot of people have a great heart. alot of people are great leaders. alot of people are great teachers. and then you have church services. please preach to me. there are alot of seminars. do we want church growth seminars or do we want the assembly. i can pay a few hundred dollars and go to a church growth seminar if i want.

Then I must repeat the question you ignored: "Can you cite me a scriptural example of Jesus preaching a barn-burner, get-em-all-shoutin' message?"

Mike Vande · Postby **Mike Vande** » November 3rd, 2009, 4:53 pm

Pastor Gary wrote:"Can you cite me a scriptural example of Jesus preaching a barn-burner, get-em-all-shoutin' message?"

When he drove the money lenders out of the temple? I imagine there a was a bit of shouting going on then... :wink:

pastorables · Postby **pastorables** » November 3rd, 2009, 6:46 pm

dolfan wrote:As I type this, though, I think it would be a hoot and a real benefit if the Assembly had a guy like Bill Hybels or John Ortberg come to speak as a keynote speaker. I'd pose this question: MUST the guest keynote speaker be a pentecostal? If so, why?

I believe I can remember Frank Carl, Reinhard Bonnke, Josh McDowell, and Jim Cymbala speaking in past Assemblies. I don't recall any of these being "pew jumping, bible thumping, sound barrier shattering" preachers, but I do remember enjoying each of them in their own respective ministries. I heard Jack Hayford at "Promise Keepers Rally in D.C." in 1997 and he was very authentic. I believe he is an excellent choice for the Assembly.

pa

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » November 4th, 2009, 3:02 am

can you cite anytime that he did not preach a barn burner. alot of Jesus's sermons were to the bone. how do we know how he spoke them. john 10:22 Jesus asserts his deity. how do we know he didnt raise his voice. when he ran the people out of the temple and called them theives and turned over their tables do you think he did that in his best jack hayford voice. i never tried to take away from teaching. it has its place, and we need it very much in COGOP. please do not place me the in haaa preacher fan club. thats not what i am saying. someones style is what sparks a fire in many, although there is a undercurrent to "sanatize" the church from the "Preacher" Preachers. im just saying we could pick many other good men and women that have a deep knowledge of scripture that preach. jentezen franklin comes to mind. one of the best preachers of our time. what about billy wilson. why not have him preach. how about td jakes. so many of them that have a different style than jack hayford. i admit,it dont make them better people or better leaders, but it does make them more interesting preachers. why is it so horrible to have an opinion on jude 2 nowadays. i think more than one person has said jack hayford is very dry in this discussion. what ever good things you have to say about him he is dry as a bone. thats all im saying.

pastorables · Postby **pastorables** » November 4th, 2009, 3:35 am

dawgs10 wrote: i admit,it dont make them better people or better leaders, but it does make them more interesting preachers. why is it so horrible to have an opinion on jude 2 nowadays. i think more than one person has said jack hayford is very dry in this discussion. what ever good things you have to say about him he is dry as a bone. thats all im saying.

Dawgs,

I can't speak for anyone else, but I really do understand what you are saying. My concern is that you would discard true meat of the Word from a minister simply based upon style alone. I believe you stated something about falling asleep? Don't forget that it takes determination and discipline when panning for gold if you desire to find the nuggets.

When Elijah was hiding in the cave, God didn't come in the expected form of an earthquake, wind, or fire, but rather spoke to Elijah in a quiet whispering voice 1 Kings 19:11-12.

God uses whom he will and your statements could actually be misunderstood and taken as offensive by the ministers of the board who are not as demonstrative as T.D. Jakes or Jentzen Franklin in the pulpit.

Again, I agree with you that Dr. Hayford is not very colorful in style, but he does offer more substance than some who offer a style more animated in delivery.

Blessings,
pa

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » November 4th, 2009, 3:52 am

again, we are talking about those that we would like to hear at the assembly. teaching ministers can be very succesful. i had a teaching pastor for most of my young life who many people loved. i am not comparing one preacher with another. i am saying that i would love to hear other people than jh. its my opinion. there are many teaching ministers that i love and have a lot of respect for that have been used by God for years. i would say this, if we really want to turn to the young harvest, jentezen franklin would be a better choice. we would have a younger crowd and a different kind of service.

Jude 2