New Church Starting on Dec 6

DeWayneTN · Postby **DeWayneTN** » November 16th, 2009, 9:45 am

MacUser, I agree. I know where the others are coming from, because we've seen so many abuses of pulling from churches. At the same time, you can't outlaw the call of God on one's life. Can you make a blanket statement that pulling out of a church and starting a new one is NEVER a good thing? I don't think I could agree with that. Again, I see the concern of undermining a church, too. God bless, Pastor Sam!

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » November 16th, 2009, 1:54 pm

MacUser wrote:
dawgs10 wrote:when taking into account how the new testament church works we see it this way. if the church sends someone out and it seems good to those involved and the Holy Ghost then its a church plant. if someone goes out on their own without the blessing of the local church then thats not a church plant.

I understand proselytizing... but my point was the non plant clause ( no compete clause essentially to ANY ministry ) and how would you ultimately enforce such a broad document? Would you legally defend it for people that left to join independent Church B that was created? Zowie.

That surely would never hold up in court. Even if you won.. what would you gain? Tragic.

i dont think it would either. the fact is would you go to a church with a pastor that said i will not start a church in this county and do it anyway. if you are a person of integerity you would not go against your word.

HogWild · Postby **HogWild** » November 16th, 2009, 2:02 pm

Man, some people will argue about almost anything..... Thank God Sam has a heart to work in the kingdom. God will bless as He desires...

And an ever louder "Thank God" that none of us will be sitting on the judgment seat weighing and measuring Sam's work.

Good job, Sam - been there, done that, and got the T-shirt. It's a fun ride. Enjoy it. Congrats!

HogWild · Postby **HogWild** » November 16th, 2009, 2:07 pm

We also have to recognize that God might actually desire to BIRTH a church out of a church... But I think sometimes Pastors (I was one) get so afraid of losing what we think is ours, that we fail to recognize our part in the process and we forget that it's all God's to begin with...

What should be a birthing and launching becomes something nasty and hurtful because we get in the way.

Just a thought...

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » November 16th, 2009, 2:07 pm

HogWild wrote:Man, some people will argue about almost anything..... Thank God Sam has a heart to work in the kingdom. God will bless as He desires...

And an ever louder "Thank God" that none of us will be sitting on the judgment seat weighing and measuring Sam's work.

Good job, Sam - been there, done that, and got the T-shirt. It's a fun ride. Enjoy it. Congrats!

i hope sam knows we got off subject on this one and it does not have anything to do with him. i am praying for his new venture. hopefully he will not pull a single person from another church as he starts a new one.

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » November 16th, 2009, 2:31 pm

HogWild wrote:We also have to recognize that God might actually desire to BIRTH a church out of a church... But I think sometimes Pastors (I was one) get so afraid of losing what we think is ours, that we fail to recognize our part in the process and we forget that it's all God's to begin with...

What should be a birthing and launching becomes something nasty and hurtful because we get in the way.

Just a thought...

again, if a church sends someone out to plant a new church and if is right for both parties, its a good thing. if someone says ok, its not going the way i want it to and then "hears from the Lord" that they are supposed to start a new church and takes people from the church they leave, its not of God in every account. "every account" i will not back down on that. every time!!!!!!!!

Rob · Postby **Rob** » November 16th, 2009, 4:27 pm

MacUser wrote:
Pastor Rob wrote:No offense.... but will you be man enough to tell those who belong to that church to go back? Or will you simply let them follow along?

No offense.. but why all the fear? If you are hearing from God and doing what is right... what is it to fear? Do you fear losing control? Do you fear losing status? Do you fear losing salary? Do you fear that the ministry they get elsewhere will change, grow, educate them in ways you can't?

Again.. don't operate out of a spirit of fear. If so.. you are already defeated.
Cast your seed and REST.

MacUser, you have no frame of reference for what I have gone through do you? Furthermore, I don't think I know you, nor do you know myself. So I do not appreciate you first off telling me that I am fearful. Second, I'm not a control freak. I have no status to lose, nor do I have any salary to lose.

I know the facts behind what was done here, you, my friend do not. So until you know what I know, have been through what I have been through I would appreciate you not trying to question my heart, my integrity or my ministry. Or maybe you which are spiritual should pray for me because of what I have been through I have a blind spot where situations like this are involved.

Rob · Postby **Rob** » November 16th, 2009, 4:32 pm

DeWayneTN wrote:MacUser, I agree. I know where the others are coming from, because we've seen so many abuses of pulling from churches. At the same time, you can't outlaw the call of God on one's life. Can you make a blanket statement that pulling out of a church and starting a new one is NEVER a good thing? I don't think I could agree with that. Again, I see the concern of undermining a church, too. God bless, Pastor Sam!

No you can not question the call of God on one's life I agree. But the proof is in the pudding. I guess I'm tired of hearing people say, "God has told me to do......" because as soon as that statement is made you take all need for discussion, not arguing Hog Wild, out of it.

Only to see a few months later that folks who left to go, and now attending no where.

free · Postby **free** » November 16th, 2009, 4:35 pm

I too pray that Sam is blessed during this time and Rob I'm praying for you. I have never experienced what you're going through in my 23 years of pastoring but I have seen many of my close friends go through similiar things.

HogWild · Postby **HogWild** » November 16th, 2009, 4:43 pm

Rob,

I agree with you. We have too much of what I call the "personal Jesus syndrome." Everyone has their own version of Jesus telling them to do what they, in reality, WANT to do....

I also have seen your heart for your congregation up close - so I believe that things are as you say and that is tragic. I am sorry for that. I have seen that sting up close and personal and would never wish that pain on anyone....

However (and I mean NO offense to you Rob), I do find it a bit ironic that you are telling someone to stop attacking your integrity in the very thread where others are quite possibly attacking the integrity of Pastor Sam.

I think we'd all do better to stop jabbering and let God bear witness of the heart of Sam and Jennifer.

And someone should start/move this in a new thread!

one love · Postby **one love** » November 17th, 2009, 12:39 am

WOW... Sam comes here to talk about this new church plant and BAM :lol:

Sam I am praying that the LORD bless'es you and Jennifer in this new venture.

BTW I do not know ONE church plant that did not start with at least some people from other churches.... Dawgs you come from another church do you not?

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » November 17th, 2009, 2:02 am

no, i dont. being planted is just that. planted. although i have seen "church planters" in our church and other churchs in my community and have yet to see it done in a way that did not hurt people. if you start a new church thats fine. you start it with the blessing of the church you leave in a community that has no church of your denom or style.

dawgs10 · Postby **dawgs10** » November 17th, 2009, 2:05 am

one love wrote:WOW... Sam comes here to talk about this new church plant and BAM

Sam I am praying that the LORD bless'es you and Jennifer in this new venture.

BTW I do not know ONE church plant that did not start with at least some people from other churches.... Dawgs you come from another church do you not?

i think this thread should be changed as well. in no way am i pointing these issues at sam. i hope God blesses sam and jennifer in this move. and if its of God it will not hurt other churchs that are striving to reach that community already.

MacUser · Postby **MacUser** » November 17th, 2009, 4:22 am

Pastor Rob wrote:MacUser, you have no frame of reference for what I have gone through do you? Furthermore, I don't think I know you, nor do you know myself. So I do not appreciate you first off telling me that I am fearful. Second, I'm not a control freak. I have no status to lose, nor do I have any salary to lose.

I know the facts behind what was done here, you, my friend do not. So until you know what I know, have been through what I have been through I would appreciate you not trying to question my heart, my integrity or my ministry. Or maybe you which are spiritual should pray for me because of what I have been through I have a blind spot where situations like this are involved.

Brother Rob. This seems to have tapped into a lot of hurt and pain you are still carrying around with you. That wasn't my goal.. but to just point you introspective instead with valid questions... and apparently it seems valid due to your above response.

Also.. please don't ever attempt to think you have the sole rights and/or the only one that goes thru problems/splits/crisis or faces down giants in your ministry. It again shows extreme immaturity and I know that wasn't your goal also.. but just hitting back out of pain.

I do pray for you to "LET GO" and let God worth these things out. Love the ones around you. Trust HIM during these times as he might be trying to show you something Pivotal. I speak "REST, Healing, Restoration, and Peace" into your ministry and life at this point.

God Bless
Chris

MacUser · Postby **MacUser** » November 17th, 2009, 4:40 am

dawgs10 wrote:i dont think it would either. the fact is would you go to a church with a pastor that said i will not start a church in this county and do it anyway. if you are a person of integerity you would not go against your word.

Wrap your mind slowly again around what you just said.

1) First you are somehow amazingly blessed to have Godly Help in your Church's local ministry and you make them sign documents/give oaths/verbal agreements in meetings/ spiritual bondage that they will never ever "start a corporate church ministry" in this ENTIRE COUNTRY because they wanted to help in your tiny ministry.

2) Speaking about lacking integrity... how could ANY Pastor, Group, Church ever ask that of someone that is following after God? Do you dare to know/fathom/predict the future for a Godly individual?

Such a broad sweeping open ended request is bordering on outlandish and could have roots in serious evil.

Wow.

Jude 2