Coaches Leaving

[Rob]

Okay,

We have watched as the landscape of College coaching gets on it's yearly merry-go-round, and have watched as fans, and players lose the coach the coach that has led their team to a land of BCS or other bowl games.

Two years ago, I was one of those fans, as I watched the coach that had led my favorite team, WVU to within nearly one game of the NC game. While Rich Rod pursued the school up north, and did Kelly with ND, I think the time has come that something needs to be done about this going to the highest bidder.

So, tonight I formally announce my plans to run for the office of President of the NCAA so I can do something about this problem. (Of course I'm kidding because I don't think I can raise enough money to win the office, j/k).

First, I would change the recruiting time table. From the last Saturday before Thanksgiving till after the last bowl game would be the dead period.

Second, if a coach or University pursued another school before their season was over, that would include the bowl game, that school would lose 5 scholarships the next season.

Third, if a coach left, for example this year, Kelly left Cincinnati to take the ND job. Cincinnati's season is not over. Now that school would lose 10 scholarships next season.

Let's face it folks, these coaches leave and leave players behind that they sit in parents living rooms or wherever and told those parents they would take care of their boys only to move on to the highest bidders and the players are left behind.

If they choose to leave after the season is over that's one thing. But having that dead period would not give any school an advantage.

Okay, guys take your shots what do you think?

[KBevangelist]

I hate it when they do that.

It is such a disservice to the players and as one Cincy player said he felt betrayed, that is pretty accurate. College ball on all scales has become all about money.

I agree with your rules pastor Rob

KB

[dolfan]

I think I like that setup. Give the lost scholarships to the school that lost the coach. That'd make the school way more attractive, too.

[ImaPK]

So PR, if another church offered you a pastorate would you have to give up 5/10 of the members at your new church? Look these kids nowadays go with a coach that will give them the best opportunity to go to the NFL. Not like the old days when a kid went to a school because that was the best team. It's become a business. Like someone posted on another thread about Tebow, schools nowadays exploit the kids so, to quote the words from a song, "who's cheatin who?". If the coach leaves, so sad too bad.

[Rob]

So PR, if another church offered you a pastorate would you have to give up 5/10 of the members at your new church? Look these kids nowadays go with a coach that will give them the best opportunity to go to the NFL. Not like the old days when a kid went to a school because that was the best team. It's become a business. Like someone posted on another thread about Tebow, schools nowadays exploit the kids so, to quote the words from a song, "who's cheatin who?". If the coach leaves, so sad too bad.

Are you serious? You know for the most part you make some pretty good posts, but this one. How many kids really get the opportunity to go on to the NFL? Not as many as we think.

That's the problem with amateur athletics, these guys are not pros, and if you want to make a difference between the 2 I think what I have suggested would be a great place to start.

My question instead of who is cheating who, would be whose the adult here? Seems like guys like Kelly, Rich Rod, Saban, etc., are only in it for themselves, not the kids.

[Rob]

I think I like that setup. Give the lost scholarships to the school that lost the coach. That'd make the school way more attractive, too.

I like that idea too.

[dolfan]

My question instead of who is cheating who, would be whose the adult here? Seems like guys like Kelly, Rich Rod, Saban, etc., are only in it for themselves, not the kids.

Spurrier, too? Because, you have to put Saban in whatever boat you put Spurrier in on that. They both left successful college jobs for NFL opportunities and both failed miserably. Neither of them threw their kids under the bus for just money in that instance. They both moved up the career ladder for their profession. Every football coach with any salt and a chance wonders if he can make his way to the Super Bowl. Neither of them had what it takes and they both returned to the college game. When each of them left the NFL, they returned to what they both said they loved the most, coaching kids. I think it shows. Spurrier is far and away a better college coach. I think it past the point of even scientific certainty that Saban is, also. And, really, the NFL IS a business, and the Redskins nor the Dolphins were 'hurt' by their departures. I know as a Dolphin fan, I was ecstatic to see Saban leave (he was awful), and doubly so to see him come to Alabama. Three seasons in here, he's got 2 back-to-back undefeated regular seasons, 2 back to back 12 win seasons and a HT winner. I think it is clear where both of these men thrive and the fact that they make good money is no flaw. BTW, Saban is not even in the top 5 paid coaches.

[TC]

The problem is the contracts, The schools need to make the contracts so that a coach can't just have the new school pay the buyout of the contract.

If you have a 5 year deal for 1.5 mil per year, then the new school should have to pay the 1.5 x 5 years (7.5 mil) to end that contract. If a coach does not succeed then the school has to pay the full bill to replace him. As much money as ND has, I think that the PR nightmare would be killer when ticket prices hit triple digits to pay for one coach to leave, a new coach and the school he left.

I am not sure exactly the time frame but at one time UT was actually paying 3 mens basketball coaches all at the same time.

[Rob]

TC, I understand what you are saying with regards to contacts, but you and I both know that fixing that will not really fix the problem. Normally, the longer a coach stays at school A, the smaller the buy out in his contract becomes.

For example, when Rich Rod left WVU it was a 3 million buyout, of which Michigan paid half and Rich Rod paid the other half. Never really put a dent in either one of their pocketbooks.

I still think the reduction of scholarships is the way to go. You don't think losing 5 scholarships will hurt? Ask schools that have lost them.

[TC]

because 3 mil is not that big a deal. Yes schollys will hurt but 5 is not enough

If Michigan had to buy out every bit of Rich Rods old contract and lose schollys as well... that would be better.

BUT it is the same as with when Schools go on probation, Like Cal, the violations should follow him. Right now if you have the money you can do what ever you want. Like Southern Cal, Bush admitted he took money on tv, the guy who gave it to him admitted it, but since both won't talk to NCAA now Southern Cal gets off scott free. Chris Duhan (sp?) admitted he took money at Duke and NOW he doesn't want to speak to NCAA so now the "investigation" (if you wanna call it that) is in a holding pattern So Duke gets to keep their final four money and final four wins and ncaa hopes everyone will just forget it.

ND and their privileged status in football... what a TOTAL JOKE

ALL THAT to say this. The NCAA /BSC is a joke at best, They don't care a flip about the athlete, they care about the money and the schools that can bring in money. You make enough dough you can do just about anything.

The ncaa/bsc will not do a thing to stop this mess with coaches. Just liek when Michigan state contacted John L Smith 2 months before the regular season was over, made a deal one month before the season was over and at least John L said he wanted to wait until after the bowl game to tell his players.. BUT NO... Michigan State not caring for anyone but themselves did not want to take the Chance John L would change his mind.. SO they leaked it the morning of the UofL bowl game... the players found out by the fans in the stands.

It is the Golden rule... those that have the Gold can do anything they want..... don't worry about making any rules they won't follow them anyway.

[Rob]

because 3 mil is not that big a deal. Yes schollys will hurt but 5 is not enough

Okay TC, remember I am wanting to penatlize a school not cripple it.

If Michigan had to buy out every bit of Rich Rods old contract and lose schollys as well... that would be better.

Not that is an interesting thought! I like it too. Of course, WVU tried that but Michigan and Rich Rod worked the other out. Of course, had Rich Rod stayed for 3/4 years of that contract the buy out was down to a million.

BUT it is the same as with when Schools go on probation, Like Cal, the violations should follow him. Right now if you have the money you can do what ever you want. Like Southern Cal, Bush admitted he took money on tv, the guy who gave it to him admitted it, but since both won't talk to NCAA now Southern Cal gets off scott free. Chris Duhan (sp?) admitted he took money at Duke and NOW he doesn't want to speak to NCAA so now the "investigation" (if you wanna call it that) is in a holding pattern So Duke gets to keep their final four money and final four wins and ncaa hopes everyone will just forget it.

This has nothing to do with the post at hand. Remember we are talking about Coaches leaving a school or being pursued by another school. Having said, that here is the one major difference between college basketball and football. Rarely do you see a coach in basketball leave to go to another school during March Madness, the one that comes to mind is the guy who left Michigan and then Bo would not let him coach in the tourney and Michigan ended up winning it all. Having said that for the sake of my thread let's keep it to the subject at hand

ND and their privileged status in football... what a TOTAL JOKE

Again, I agree but it has nothing to do with the topic of this thread

ALL THAT to say this. The NCAA /BSC is a joke at best, They don't care a flip about the athlete, they care about the money and the schools that can bring in money. You make enough dough you can do just about anything.

Again I agree, but still not the topic of this thread

The ncaa/bsc will not do a thing to stop this mess with coaches. Just like when Michigan state contacted John L Smith 2 months before the regular season was over, made a deal one month before the season was over and at least John L said he wanted to wait until after the bowl game to tell his players.. BUT NO... Michigan State not caring for anyone but themselves did not want to take the Chance John L would change his mind.. SO they leaked it the morning of the UofL bowl game... the players found out by the fans in the stands.

I remember that, and that is the point of this thread. Again, if there had been some consquences for MSU doing what they did it would stop some of these schools and coaches from doing what they do. Now that goes to prove that neither MSU nor John L cared about the student athlete. These schools have got to understand that the student athlete is the most important. Without them, there is no one in the stands to sell tickets too, and no income coming in to support that school.

It is the Golden rule... those that have the Gold can do anything they want..... don't worry about making any rules they won't follow them anyway.

Regardless of what I thought about Myles Brand he did make some changes that needed to be made, just not enough. The NCAA needs a strong president that will send a message to the schools and then back it up and let the schools suffer the consquences. Thanks for the post Tony!

[TC]

Okay TC, remember I am wanting to penatlize a school not cripple it.

7.5 mil will not cripple most of the schools that are doing this.


Not that is an interesting thought! I like it too. Of course, WVU tried that but Michigan and Rich Rod worked the other out. Of course, had Rich Rod stayed for 3/4 years of that contract the buy out was down to a million.

BUT if WVU had said they did not care who paid it but the full amount will be paid or he will not break the contract.

This has nothing to do with the post at hand. Remember we are talking about Coaches leaving a school or being pursued by another school. Having said, that here is the one major difference between college basketball and football. Rarely do you see a coach in basketball leave to go to another school during March Madness, the one that comes to mind is the guy who left Michigan and then Bo would not let him coach in the tourney and Michigan ended up winning it all. Having said that for the sake of my thread let's keep it to the subject at hand

Think about it... it is not in the coaches best interest to leave before the final four, it does not matter in football unless you are in for the BCS title. Like Cincy, the are the underdog, so coach takes off and gets credit for a 12-0 season but not the BCS loss.



I remember that, and that is the point of this thread. Again, if there had been some consquences for MSU doing what they did it would stop some of these schools and coaches from doing what they do. Now that goes to prove that neither MSU nor John L cared about the student athlete. These schools have got to understand that the student athlete is the most important. Without them, there is no one in the stands to sell tickets too, and no income coming in to support that school.

The problem is unless they make the consequences so bad it won't matter, have to make the punishment too bad bad that the risk is not worth it.

Regardless of what I thought about Myles Brand he did make some changes that needed to be made, just not enough. The NCAA needs a strong president that will send a message to the schools and then back it up and let the schools suffer the consquences. Thanks for the post Tony

Brand did some things but the problem is it is now worst, the big schools get by more and the things he put in for the most part are only used against those who can not spend millions defending themselves until the NCAA just wants to settle. AND Now the BCS is more powerful than the NCAA... because it controls the money

[Rob]

Okay TC, remember I am wanting to penatlize a school not cripple it.

7.5 mil will not cripple most of the schools that are doing this.

I was speaking more of the scholarships than I was the money. Naturally the money is not a big deal because of boosters. But losing scholarship would hurt the most

Not that is an interesting thought! I like it too. Of course, WVU tried that but Michigan and Rich Rod worked the other out. Of course, had Rich Rod stayed for 3/4 years of that contract the buy out was down to a million.

BUT if WVU had said they did not care who paid it but the full amount will be paid or he will not break the contract.

WVU didn't care we just wanted the buy out paid and we did get the 3 million. Which had been 7.5 million now. lol

This has nothing to do with the post at hand. Remember we are talking about Coaches leaving a school or being pursued by another school. Having said, that here is the one major difference between college basketball and football. Rarely do you see a coach in basketball leave to go to another school during March Madness, the one that comes to mind is the guy who left Michigan and then Bo would not let him coach in the tourney and Michigan ended up winning it all. Having said that for the sake of my thread let's keep it to the subject at hand

Think about it... it is not in the coaches best interest to leave before the final four, it does not matter in football unless you are in for the BCS title. Like Cincy, the are the underdog, so coach takes off and gets credit for a 12-0 season but not the BCS loss.

I didn't say Final Four, I said March Madness. But I'm not so sure that schools contact coaches whose team is still in the tourney. Schools during March Madness respect what a coach is trying to do with his team and don't bother him till after the Final Four or his team is knocked out. As for football it seems like as soon as the season is over, it's open season, forget about the bowls games.

I remember that, and that is the point of this thread. Again, if there had been some consquences for MSU doing what they did it would stop some of these schools and coaches from doing what they do. Now that goes to prove that neither MSU nor John L cared about the student athlete. These schools have got to understand that the student athlete is the most important. Without them, there is no one in the stands to sell tickets too, and no income coming in to support that school.

The problem is unless they make the consequences so bad it won't matter, have to make the punishment too bad bad that the risk is not worth it.

I agree I guess the question is what would be the punishment for in this case ND. Lose 10/15 scholarships?

Regardless of what I thought about Myles Brand he did make some changes that needed to be made, just not enough. The NCAA needs a strong president that will send a message to the schools and then back it up and let the schools suffer the consquences. Thanks for the post Tony

Brand did some things but the problem is it is now worst, the big schools get by more and the things he put in for the most part are only used against those who can not spend millions defending themselves until the NCAA just wants to settle. AND Now the BCS is more powerful than the NCAA... because it controls the money

Maybe the BCS has to step and put a stop to it. I think we have to remember the studen athlete.

[TC]

I was speaking more of the scholarships than I was the money. Naturally the money is not a big deal because of boosters. But losing scholarship would hurt the most

not unless it is over multiple years, and 5 is not nearly enough


WVU didn't care we just wanted the buy out paid and we did get the 3 million. Which had been 7.5 million now. lol

UofL a school that is not in the MONEY BAGS department, has paid Ron Cooper 1mill to leave after a 1-10 season, they are going to pay Krag about 6mill to leave after 3 poor seasons. What is ND gonna pay Fat Charlie to get out of south bend, PLUS paying their new lackey to take over. a few mill is not a problem. I wonder why is it if you are UNsuccessful, you get paid the full amount to leave yet if you are successful you have the new school pay your way out of a contract.


I didn't say Final Four, I said March Madness. But I'm not so sure that schools contact coaches whose team is still in the tourney. Schools during March Madness respect what a coach is trying to do with his team and don't bother him till after the Final Four or his team is knocked out. As for football it seems like as soon as the season is over, it's open season, forget about the bowls games.

You are aware that these that are same schools that do it in football, the ONLY difference is that in College basketball there are maybe 20 top tier schools and most have coaches that will not be leaving for another top tier school,

I agree I guess the question is what would be the punishment for in this case ND. Lose 10/15 scholarships?

that would be a start, but lets really do it, lets 15 scholarships for 4 years, lose one home game a year for 4 years plus pay the money.

To me it is like nascar, if you get caught cheating the you have to pay a small fine and lose maybe 20 points... YET they still give you the win, all of the money from that race and you will get more than 20 points for the win... You are an idiot if you don't at least try to cheat.


Maybe the BCS has to step and put a stop to it. I think we have to remember the studen athlete.


NOT GONNA HAPPEN... because it is NOT about the student athlete, has not been for some time and will never be again. Anything done in the name of the student will ALL BE SHOW. I personally think the outcome of games has been decided on what is best for the BCS... I think that Texas was given the nebraska game, I hate nebraska but I think that the Big 12 people knew if Texas lost they would not have a shot at the title game, so give them a chance to win.

the problem is the BCS has overtaken the NCAA, They are more powerful than the NCAA, US Congress and the President of the US. They say they tweek things to make it better but I will never happen because it is all down to how much money can be spread among the big boys.

IF they really want to make a change, the very first step should be tell ND to get in a conference or they will be like every other school NOT in a BCS Conference.

[ImaPK]

TC said

Maybe the BCS has to step and put a stop to it. I think we have to remember the studen athlete.


NOT GONNA HAPPEN... because it is NOT about the student athlete, has not been for some time and will never be again. Anything done in the name of the student will ALL BE SHOW.

Thank you TC, this answers the question of this thread. If the schools don't care about the student athelete why should a coach. The schools care about nothing but the money. The schools make money off of the players while the players get nothing.

Pastor Rob said

Are you serious? You know for the most part you make some pretty good posts, but this one. How many kids really get the opportunity to go on to the NFL? Not as many as we think.

I think you misunderstood what I said.(shades of FQ ) My statement was made about 4or5 Star players who go to a school that has a high profile coach that has put several players into the NFL because of the coaches high profile and that schools winning record. Think about it, players who have played at Florida under Steve and Urban were/are more likely to get a shot at the NFL because of the exposure of the school on TV AND the coaching staff's ability to prepare a player for the NFL. The chances ARE slim for college players to make it in the NFL but certain COACHES and SCHOOLS seem to have an inate ability to keep pumping players into the NFL.