Do We Read the Bible Like Lunatics???

[Russell Roberts]

We all have a 'hermeneutic'. Don't let that big word scare you. A 'hermeneutic' simply refers to a method or principle of interpreting scripture (or any other text for that matter). This article is the first in a series designed to show how many Christians misunderstand scripture because of their 'hermeneutic' - their method for interpreting scripture.

Imagine that, rummaging through an old drawer, you came across a letter from your grandfather to your grandmother during the time that they were dating in WWII. In the letter, he describes the current shortage of goods and asks about her family. He expresses his love for her and talks about their dreams of a future home and family.

Would you read this letter as though it was written to you? If your grandfather wrote "I hope that you are healthy and prosperous..." would you read that letter as though your grandfather was talking to YOU? I sure hope not. Yet that is the exactly the way many of us read the bible.

This is what I refer to as an 'egocentric hermeneutic' (egocentric means self-centered). Thus, an egocentric hermeneutic refers to a self-centered method for reading the bible. This method for reading the bible ignores the historic context. It ignores that the epistles, or letters, for example, were written by an author who had a unique perspective.

As a Jew who formerly lived under the law, Paul, for example, could say that 'we' have been redeemed from the curse of the law, referring to himself and other Jews who had actually lived under the law (Torah). Paul would never imagine that gentiles who read those letters would include themselves in the 'we'. Gentiles had never lived under the Torah. Paul knew it, and they knew it.

Having grown up hearing these verses read from an egocentric perspective, many Christians are not even aware they are reading the bible this way, they are totally ignoring, therefore misunderstanding, what the bible really means. Hopefully, this short article will enable you to be aware that when John wrote "Beloved, I desire that ye prosper and be in good health..." it is part of a greeting in a letter instead of a timeless statement about God's desire for YOU to make a lot of money.

There are occasions where we, having become a part of the story, are included in the statements being made. But if we are to understand the bible we must read it with an awareness of the specific historic context and only THEN try to understand how it may, or may not, apply to US.

[pastorables]

Russell,

Though I understand what you are heroically trying to do, and I agree to some degree, we also have to be careful that we don't separate ourselves too far, historical or not, from God's Word and it's applicability today.

Paul wrote things like, "And above all things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness" to the church at Colossae, This was in a historical letter written from prison to the church of A.D. 60, yet it is also written for our admonition and Christian growth today.

Blessings,
pa

[MacUser]

How are we to receive this parable told by Jesus? Do we take all of it or just part of it. Who decides the good, useful, or bogus parts?

Luke 15:11-32
31" 'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours.


I think the buzz word here you are slamming is "prosperity" and that definition needs to be defined clearly before the extremes of both angles come into play. Ironically the above extremes eluded to... really mimic the above parable of the two sons and the giving father.

[Russell Roberts]

Pastorables,

I don't deny that what is written has implications for us today. It certainly does. But to understand what those implications ARE, we must first understand the bible in its cultural context and setting including audience and speaker.

Blessings.

[Russell Roberts]

Macuser, (I use a mac now also btw)

Many people read that parable as a lesson about the timeless love of God for sinners. While I don't doubt that God loves sinners, I think the point of the parable is something else entirely. I wrote an article about this parable within its historic context in an article on my FB page. But to understand my evaluation of the parable of the prodigal son, it is necessary to understand the worldview of a first century Jew. I bet you would find them interesting. Here is a link to both articles.

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=235507357342

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=236640102342

Honestly, this thread isn't a polemic against the 'prosperity gospel'. It is more about hermeneutic.

Blessings

[MacUser]

Honestly, this thread isn't a polemic against the 'prosperity gospel'. It is more about hermeneutic.

Blessings

No problem.. then rotate and give 3 different examples using your original point. My plea is that you know it's a buzz word and if you are going to park on it... just wanted definitions of what "Prosperity" actually means before it was dismissed in your original statement.

btw.. not on facebook. Sorry.

[Russell Roberts]

Aight den.

Gal 3:13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us (because it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree")

Most Christians read the 'we' in this verse to include themselves. Paul spoke from the perspective of a man who had lived under Torah. He really had been under the curse of the law. WE, haven't.


2Co 5:21 God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the righteousness of God.

Whether or not it may apply, most Christians read themselves into this verse. I don't know how many times I've heard it repeated that "I" have become the righteousness of Christ, repeated ad nauseum, without understand what Paul meant.

The same thing can be said of all of Romans 7. Paul wasn't talking about Gentiles at all. Here is the heading for this chapter in my bible.

Rom 7:1 The Believer's Relationship to the Law

I could go on and on and on and on and on without even touching the prosperity gospel (which I do indeed highly despise).

[Russell Roberts]

Sorry double post. Isn't there some way to delete a comment?

[Russell Roberts]

Mac, I will post the articles in a couple of threads under the doctrine forum.

[scooter]

I mostly steer clear of your post after being called a liar but its really not as neat and clear cut as what you would paint it.


If I read a letter that my grand pa wrote I'm sure there would be things that would carry over like "don't spit into the wind" or "the wages of sin is death".

You pick and choose just like another other individual what you like, whether it's the Lord being your shepherd too or YOU having access to the gift of God being eternal life. a timeless "Roman's" text.

[Russell Roberts]

Again, I'm not saying that what was said isn't relevant to us. It is.
But if we fail to consider the speaker, the hearer, and the culture in which they lived, we will not understand the meaning.

For example, in passages where Jesus was speaking about what would happen to the disciples (they would be persecuted, etc.) we tend to read ourselves into the text, believing that Jesus was talking about an event in OUR future. That isn't what he meant.

[MacUser]

Again, I'm not saying that what was said isn't relevant to us. It is.
But if we fail to consider the speaker, the hearer, and the culture in which they lived, we will not understand the meaning.

Sure. And that goes for translations also...


Romans 10:17
Greek Translations

Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
ara h pistiV ex akohV h de akoh dia rhmatoV qeou

Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
ara h pistiV ex akohV h de akoh dia rhmatoV qeou

Byzantine Majority
ara h pistiV ex akohV h de akoh dia rhmatoV qeou

Alexandrian
ara h pistiV ex akohV h de akoh dia rhmatoV cristou

Hort and Westcott
ara h pistiV ex akohV h de akoh dia rhmatoV cristou

Latin Vulgate
10:17 ergo fides ex auditu auditus autem per verbum Christi




King James Version
10:17 So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. < ---??

American Standard Version
10:17 So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.



On review.. It's not hearing the word of GOD.. but hearing Word of Christ! Changes the meaning dramatically.

[Russell Roberts]

Mac, I'm glad you agree with me.

You are right about the translations. Thank goodness we have people out there whose job it is to figure out which are the best supported!

[dawgs10]

so with the understanding that we are grafted in the vine of Abraham, you do not believe that the promise given to him and his people are promises to us as well. what if i say i have tried those promises and know for a fact that they are for us as well. The Bible is just a history book if we dont put the word of God to practical use.

[oletimer]

dawgs10 Posted:

so with the understanding that we are grafted in the vine of Abraham, you do not believe that the promise given to him and his people are promises to us as well. what if i say i have tried those promises and know for a fact that they are for us as well. The Bible is just a history book if we dont put the word of God to practical use.

Ge 22:16
And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Ge 22:17
That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Ge 22:18
And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

It is gratifying to know that because of Abraham's faith that we all are blessed.
Isa 60:3
And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

Aman