how old is the earth

[Pastor Gary]

That leaves a conflict between your interpretation of Genesis 1 and the conclusion of most scientists out there including the most prominent CHRISTIAN scientists who have lived over the last fifty years who not only believe in an old earth but believe that God used an evolutionary process to create mankind. Would you agree with that statement?

This is (yet) another of the kind of questions that occupy lots of time to no end. If I thought that any of this was essential to my eternal salvation I would worry about it, but it isn't, so I don't.

[Russell Roberts]

Pastor Gary,

It might not be related to YOUR salvation, but what about those who feel forced to choose between a belief in evolution and Christianity? That's my interest here. Many Christians (and non-Christians alike) view these two beliefs as mutually exclusive. I'm just trying to knock down some barriers to belief brother. I aim to show that these are not mutually exclusive ideas and that one need not feel forced to choose between the two.

That is my main interest. I am one who USED to believe that the two were mutually exclusive.

[Russell Roberts]

Then again, maybe I'm wasting my time. There are Christians on here though who have children who will go to college and who will accept these theories as being true (as I am coming to believe). It would be tragic, in my opinion, if they then made their children feel like their acceptance of these theories equated to a rejection of Jesus. I suspect this happens a lot.

[dawgs10]

Then again, maybe I'm wasting my time. There are Christians on here though who have children who will go to college and who will accept these theories as being true (as I am coming to believe). It would be tragic, in my opinion, if they then made their children feel like their acceptance of these theories equated to a rejection of Jesus. I suspect this happens a lot.

and hopefully there are children that will not allow "higher"education to redefine who they are and what they believe, but to use education as a catapult to be able to say i have an education and faith and i believe the earth is a few thousand years old so deal with it.

[Russell Roberts]

Dawgs, I'm not sure about you, but I hope my beliefs five or ten years down the road are different than they are today. I hope that God gives me a deeper understanding of who he is. I hope he challenges my interpretation of scripture in a million different ways, forcing me to think and learn.

But that's just me. I love to learn about Jesus.

In other words, I hope that God redefines who I am through higher education.

Then again, I could settle in to a very comfortable sort of existence and pretend like I've got it all figgered out.

[dawgs10]

Dawgs, I'm not sure about you, but I hope my beliefs five or ten years down the road are different than they are today. I hope that God gives me a deeper understanding of who he is. I hope he challenges my interpretation of scripture in a million different ways, forcing me to think and learn.

But that's just me. I love to learn about Jesus.

In other words, I hope that God redefines who I am through higher education.

Then again, I could settle in to a very comfortable sort of existence and pretend like I've got it all figgered out.

a degree is something that we must have to make money. thats my view. if we allow a secular view to dictate faith and the word of God then we fail. now you know about me.

[Russell Roberts]

I was not limiting my phrase "higher education" to a classroom environment. It was actually a double entendre.

[RamboPreacher]

If you didn't think they were wrong I'm perplexed about why you would be presenting arguments to discredit their conclusions.

How old do you think the earth is?

I am familiar with the whole multi-verse thing if it is the idea that black holes spawn new universes on the other side.

My point is about seeing the whole picture. not about right and wrong. you seem to be so concluded in their right-ness, that you are missing what I have said. it isn't about discrediting, but about full disclosure, and allowing folks to make up their own minds.

YES, there is reason for them to be that way, don't get me wrong. There is much learning and academics to get through to get to a point in order to be able to make that discussion viable and conclusive. However, that should not preclude it from happening.

and no, my model isn't about black-hole (theory) and re-creations, it is more along a sting theory of dimensional space-time and inter-dimensional transfer of "matter" within and without this physics. All founded on an initial creative event, that is not from a singularity where this physics breaks at planck-level.

Ok Brent. I should axe you one dang question at the time. Let me start with this one.

How OLD do YOU THINK the DAGUM EARTH IS???

Read my posts. I have given my answer at least a couple times. You don't like my answer, so read over it (apparently), or you are just not reading all of my posts, which I know happens when I write long ones, so you aren't alone. and just for clarification, no, i didn't answer your question in this post.

[Pastorbps]

and no, my model isn't about black-hole (theory) and re-creations, it is more along a sting theory of dimensional space-time and inter-dimensional transfer of "matter" within and without this physics. All founded on an initial creative event, that is not from a singularity where this physics breaks at planck-level.

I believe you just killed the hamster in my head.

[TW]

I have followed this thread from the beginning, yet have withheld comment until now. However at this point I feel like "rattling some cages."

Let me first state, so there can be no doubt, that I believe that God created the universe and all that it contains, including man. I have not the faith to believe that we are the result of some impossibly remote mathematical possibility that ALL the necessary conditions just happened to occur at the proper time and place to produce any life, much less the complexity of the life we know exist. That only leaves me with the option of intelligent design, ergo CREATION.

That said I cannot support the traditional interpretation of Genesis as being a literal historically accurate account of creation. To do so would first require that God be limited to functioning in the same awareness of time that we relate to, i.e. 60 seconds per minute, 60 minutes per hour, 24 hours per day, etc.. As far as I can tell God exist without the constraints of time as we know it. God spoke His creation into existence, He would say the Word and what ever He spoke would instantly exist. Even assuming that it took a nanosecond to occur, what did He do for the remaining 23 hours 59 minutes 59.999999 seconds of the day? Then on the seventh day "He rested" from His labors, that would indicate a very frail God if He found it necessary to "rest" after only six nanoseconds of work. the Bible shows many many of the attributes of God, and being "frail" is not one of them.

Another reason is that to accept the traditional interpretation would require that I accept the Jewish oral traditions as being accurate and unbiased. Every primitive culture, and the earliest Jews fall into this same group, had a "creation" story. These stories reflected the various cultures and their values. The oral traditions were view through, and biased, by the cultural lens of this nomadic tribe. We have to remember that Moses, the author of Genesis, was not actually in the Garden, but rather wrote down the oral traditions that had been passed down from generation to generation. We have no way of knowing how much the creation story changed through the generations.

I believe that Genesis speaks more to the "history" that God created a perfect world, that at some point sin entered into that world and paradise, a proper relationship with God, was lost. It matters not if the sin entered the world through Adam or Eve, it only matters that it did indeed enter the world.

How old is the world? I don't know. I do believe however that it is more than a few thousand years old.


TW

[Russell Roberts]

TW,

I think God created everything too. I just don't agree with a lot of folks as to how He did it. Is it any less miraculous if he took a billion years to do it? Not to me it isn't. It is actually much more fascination. Not only that but if he evolved all the animals that exist from a single cell, oh my goodness, how incredible is that? Rather than making God seem small, it makes Him seem that much more incredible to me. What an awesome God we serve.

[Pastorbps]

TW
In my first post on this subject I accepted the possibility the earth was older. My whole point in my posts is that science has not and cannot prove that because it is based upon false assumptions.
My problem with your post is much different because you cast doubt on the nature of scripture. You seem to imply the Creation narrative was only a "story" told by a "primitive culture" and seen through a "biased cultural lens." This relegates scripture to being unreliable. How many other accounts in the scripture are just unreliable, traditional tales told by a primitive culture? The resurrection itself could then be placed in that category.
We may not interpret the Genesis account correctly but the account itself is absolutely correct. Having said that, I do agree there is room to question if the 7 days of creation were days as we know them. This is seen by the fact "the evening and the morning" existed before the Sun which sets and rises. Still, I have seen nothing to convince me to move from my belief in a young earth. All that science has shown can be explained if we believe in an Almighty God.
Also, God didn't show weakness by resting on the 7th day. I think there is something much deeper. In fact, one might ask, "Why didn't God just say He created the universe in 6 days?"

[Pastorbps]

Russel:
So you believe man evolved from a single cell?

[Pastor Gary]

TW,

I think God created everything too. I just don't agree with a lot of folks as to how He did it. Is it any less miraculous if he took a billion years to do it? Not to me it isn't. It is actually much more fascination. Not only that but if he evolved all the animals that exist from a single cell, oh my goodness, how incredible is that? Rather than making God seem small, it makes Him seem that much more incredible to me. What an awesome God we serve.

Where did that single cell come from?

[Russell Roberts]

Yes I do. Look what happens in the womb. Very similar process.