lies

[Full Quiver]

IS it ever the right thing to do to tell someone a lie?

[Russell Roberts]

Only when you have to brother! LOL

[MacUser]

Abraham was blessed gloriously by God from a WHOPPER of a lie that he told.

[Shellie]

The midwives in Egypt lied.

[Paully_44]

Depends on the circumstance, but not if you were Peter.

[Phil Hoover]

is often golden.

[Daniel]

16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running
to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among
brethren.

[Russell Roberts]

The midwives in Egypt lied.

Good point. And God blessed them for it.

I think we are so obsessed with sin we don't have time to think about love. Why is this?

[Russell Roberts]

Daniel,

I think that is talking about lies in a court of law and lies that are against someone for the intent of doing evil. I guess I do think there are times that it is appropriate to lie. Shellie gave a great example.

[Poimen]

Thankfully, God is good and gracious despite our sin, and not because of it (cue the midwives, Abraham, et al). However, to answer your question...

IT is NEVER okay to lie! Indeed, it is never okay to sin. God forgives, and God works all things (even lies) for our good when we love Him and are called according to His purpose. That's all about some GRACE! Still, we shouldn't sin that grace may abound. God forbid.

As for lying itself, the Bible instructs us to divorce ourselves from lying and to speak everyone of us TRUTH with our neighbor (there's that love bit Russell). I don't think you can use any language much stronger than that to express the refrain God expects of us in this matter.

Consider these passages for a biblical answer:

Proverbs 12:22
Proverbs 13:5
Proverbs 14:5
John 8:44
Ephesians 4:25
Colossians 3:9
1 Timothy 1:10
Titus 1:2
1 John 2:21
Revelation 21:8
Revelation 21:27
Revelation 22:15

[Russell Roberts]

Poimen,

Sometimes I think you are obsessed with sin.

I do love you though brother.

I think a really good thread on here would be "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"

Jesus seems to be teaching the principle that sometimes, in pursuing the greater good, violation of other commands is called for. Even the Pharisees acknowledged that a baby should be circumcised on the 8th day even if it was the Sabbath.

David did what was unlawful by eating the holy bread. Don't have time to look that up right now but I think Shellie gave the most excellent example of a case when lying was not only appropriate, but blessed by God. Another case would be Rahab when she lied about the spies. The Bible declares her to be RIGHTEOUS. God blessed her BECAUSE she honored God by LYING. LOL

God doesn't always think the way we do. Throw out the rules brother. If it is necessary to lie in the course of loving God and loving my neighbor, consider it done. It's a paradox huh?

I just hope I never find my life in danger at the hands of evil men while hiding at your house Poimen.

[Poimen]

Poimen,

Sometimes I think you are obsessed with sin.

I do love you though brother.

I don't understand what it is you mean by that, nor what it is you hope to imply or accomplish in saying as much. You totally lost me here. But somehow I feel like it was a slight.

[Russell Roberts]

Poimen,

I expanded my comments but I didn't change that part.

I think you have a very good heart. And as I stated, I am fond of you and I do love you. But I think that we can become overly obsessed with sin to the detriment of focusing on other aspects of life that are more important like our pursuit to love God and love our neighbor.

We can indeed strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. We can tithe on our mint and dill and cumin but omit the weightier matters of the law.

[Russell Roberts]

In the following passage, Jesus seems to be teaching that one does not incur guilt for technical violations when they are committed in pursuit of the higher cause to love God and love your neighbor. Decide for yourself. Does one incur guilt for lying when it is done to protect life?

12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grain fields on a Sabbath. His 1 disciples were hungry, and they began to pick heads of wheat 2 and eat them. 12:2 But when the Pharisees 3 saw this they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is against the law to do on the Sabbath.” 12:3 He 4 said to them, “Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry – 12:4 how he entered the house of God and they ate 5 the sacred bread, 6 which was against the law 7 for him or his companions to eat, but only for the priests? 8 12:5 Or have you not read in the law that the priests in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are not guilty? 12:6 I 9 tell you that something greater than the temple is here. 12:7 If 10 you had known what this means: ‘I want mercy and not sacrifice,’ 11 you would not have condemned the innocent. 12:8 For the Son of Man is lord 12 of the Sabbath.”

[Brian]

Thankfully, God is good and gracious despite our sin, and not because of it (cue the midwives, Abraham, et al). However, to answer your question...

IT is NEVER okay to lie! Indeed, it is never okay to sin. God forgives, and God works all things (even lies) for our good when we love Him and are called according to His purpose. That's all about some GRACE! Still, we shouldn't sin that grace may abound. God forbid.

As for lying itself, the Bible instructs us to divorce ourselves from lying and to speak everyone of us TRUTH with our neighbor (there's that love bit Russell). I don't think you can use any language much stronger than that to express the refrain God expects of us in this matter.

Consider these passages for a biblical answer:

Proverbs 12:22
Proverbs 13:5
Proverbs 14:5
John 8:44
Ephesians 4:25
Colossians 3:9
1 Timothy 1:10
Titus 1:2
1 John 2:21
Revelation 21:8
Revelation 21:27
Revelation 22:15

Hey Poimen, I agree with what you have said here and I agree with the scripture references you provided. You speak truth when you say it is sin to lie and that one ought not practice sin. What I think is missed so many times is where we place our focal point at. Do we look focus on the lie that may be told by a parent who tells the armed intruder that there children are not home, when they in fact may be hiding in the closet? I would rather rejoice over the fact that the children may be alive because the intruder didn't look.
Or should we focus on a lie told by a young girl whose father abuses her for doing something normal but because he is an alcoholic and has drunk himself into a near comatose stupor the girl might lie to try and protect herself or her siblings. Any millions of other examples may be made as to why someone may not quickly make a confession of truth. Where should our focus be?

Of course it's wrong to lie. And the situation doesn't alter whether something is a sin or not. Teach the truth. Teach what to do if a situation leads us down a road that we should probably quickly get off of, but focus on what's important in our walk with Christ.

We have all read the news where just 1 of the many cold blooded killers on the street would just as soon shoot you than look at you. If someone was going to shoot me in the face because he said my sneakers looked funny (even if i new darn well them sneakers rocked and cost $200) you better believe I am going to agree with him all the way cause I don't want to get shot!! Am I a liar or do I just want to keep this life that the Lord gave me or should I want to give it up because of someone lunatic?

What are we focusing on?