Put A Ring On It

[oletimer]

RamboPreacher Posted:

Pastorbps wrote:

I hope he added this...
"And if you don't get married then stop living together and stop having sex without being married and if you are going to continue to live together and have sex then stop calling yourself a Christian."

interesting view Pastor. is sexual sin somehow different than other sins? if someone has sin in their life at all, does that mean they are not a Christian? Are you a sinless person, that does not have sin in your life at all, so therefor you are a Christian?

Rambo you've posted your views so I guess I can to. I guess that I read these verses different then you and some others.

Ro 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Ro 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Ro 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.


1Co 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak this to your shame.


1Jo 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.


1Co 7:36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

For a person to make a mistake and get it made right with God is one thing, but to live in sin and call oneself a Christian is hypocrisy.

[Brian]

oletimer, Rambo has a valid point. he isn't saying that sexual sins are ok, or that they should be overlooked. he is asking if you treat other sins, not mistakes, in the same fashion?

Like the little old lady who may have been coming to church for 50 yrs but will scowl the scowl of death at someone who does something different than what they have always done. or all those pro hyme folks who wont even show the slightest bit of respect toward some of the more modern christian music but rather keep there seat, arms folded, snide look on there faces.

And of course there are the more severe disobedient members among us. the liars, abusers, thiefs, cheaters, tax evaders ect. ect.

Thats why it's always best to let Christ judge the heart of the believer because He is the only one who see's it.

[TW]

Or the businessman that sits in church every Sunday, but on Monday will charge for services not rendered, or material not used? Is he any more of a Christian than those "living in sin?" Or how about the church gossips?

Wouldn't it be better to show them God's design for marriage then let the Holy Spirit convict them? That is what I believe this pastor is trying to do. to teach them about God's plan, to guide them not judge them.


TW

[oletimer]

Code: Select all

Brian Posted:   
oletimer, Rambo has a valid point. he isn't saying that sexual sins are ok, or that they should be overlooked. he is asking if you treat other sins, not mistakes, in the same fashion?

Here is what Rambo said, "if someone has sin in their life at all, does that mean they are not a Christian?"

And my answer is that they are not a Christian and this based on the word of God. As far as I know sin doesn't have a color nor degree.

TW wrote:
Is he any more of a Christian than those "living in sin?" Or how about the church gossips?

My thoughts are that neither are Christians as neither meet the criterion for salvation.

I think that he is doing good in trying to get them to get married, but just because they get married want make them Christians, but is a good step toward getting right before God. Now would come repentance don't ye think.

Got to go, program tonight on local TV station @ 5:00 PM central. On web cast @ WMTY.net

[soulsearcher]

Wouldn't it be better to show them God's design for marriage then let the Holy Spirit convict them? That is what I believe this pastor is trying to do. to teach them about God's plan, to guide them not judge them.


TW

Exactly, TW.

[RamboPreacher]

Oltimer; Thanks for your post and opinion and your interpretation of scripture. You may find that our views are not so distant as you might think. But my query was not addressed from the poster in reference.

[Brian]

.................neither meet the criterion for salvation.

I was once held to task over that very statement. What then is the "criterion" for salvation?

For me, I have no idea what goes on in the heart of another believer. I don't know what God see's when He looks at your life through the eyes of grace and mercy. The only thing that I can do is pray for strength and wisdom to be lead through my own tangled web of flesh and to ask for stregth to be able to hold on to Christ while my feet are being pulled from the flames. If you find someone who has removed all the planks from there own eyes then send them my way cause I need help with a few redwoods!

[TW]

My thoughts are that neither are Christians as neither meet the criterion for salvation.

Is that a fact? The Bible is very clear about the criterion for salvation, and it happens to be my favorite verse in the entire Bible. It is the only criterion.

John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

And yes, they are in red, the words of our Lord Jesus. Can you tell me what someone else believes, what I believe? The answer is, NO! My job as a Christian is to tell them the "Good News," not to convict them. That is the job of the Holy Spirit, and I'm not qualified to do that work.


TW

[one love]

I guess a better and more defining question should be asked. Can you live in a willful state of sin and be saved?

[Pastor Bill]

I guess a better and more defining question should be asked. Can you live in a willful state of sin and be saved?

See I would say an even better question would be even if you can, SHOULD you?

we can split hairs all day on where that line between a mistake and willful sin are, we can argue over just how much "slipping up" is OK before a person "loses their salvation" but the fact is we're not the judge.

As Christians we should be SEEKING to do what is right, if we're not and we are continuing in sin, it's not good for us, and rather than define the line that is too far, we need to address our attitudes about why we want to even care about that line rather than just seek to draw closer and closer.

Young Christians do struggle with these things, and I am not saying they are unsaved if they are still working through these things and learning to find God's will in their lives, but as the pastor pointed out, there is a right way, and if you are choosing to avoid it, then you need to question your own sincerity as a Christian.

[Brian]

As Christians we should be SEEKING to do what is right, if we're not and we are continuing in sin, it's not good for us, and rather than define the line that is too far, we need to address our attitudes about why we want to even care about that line rather than just seek to draw closer and closer.

Usually the "line" is defined by someone's pointed finger at what they see someone else doing.

I have rarely seen someone with the attitude of "how much can I get away with and still be saved". That mindset is usually superimposed onto someone else by someone because of another's freedom in Christ.

[Pastorbps]

Wow. I'm sorry it took me so long to respond but I really didn't think my statement warranted discussion and therefore I didn't bother checking for responses. I guess I was wrong.

How foolish this all is. We can't even tell someone fornicating is sinful.
I cannot begin to understand how people could get so far off target from what the Word of God teaches. Once again, in 1 Cor. 5 Paul should have left the man alone who had his father's wife and just let the Holy Spirit do His work. Your teachings sound good and loving and tolerant etc until you measure it by scripture and you find it doesn't fit.

You ask me about my sin. I will ask you this, what about Paul's what about the other people in Corinth? If you are right and we all have sin and shouldn't call people on their open sin, then Paul should have never picked on that one man who had his father's wife or the other sinners mentioned at the end of 1 Cor 5.

If a person lives in open sin and when it is pointed out to them that their behavior is sinful and inconsistent with a regenerate heart, and they refuse to abandon it, then that is evidence they are not "Born Again."

If you can point out the areas of sin in my life then I will immediately repent of that sin and try to correct my behavior. I will do that because that's what regenerated people do.

[Pastor Bill]

Usually the "line" is defined by someone's pointed finger at what they see someone else doing.

I have rarely seen someone with the attitude of "how much can I get away with and still be saved". That mindset is usually superimposed onto someone else by someone because of another's freedom in Christ.

Actually I've seen both, and I've seen more energy spent arguing over where that line is than just personally seeking Christ. To me if you're spending more time looking for lines than seeking to draw closer, you've done crossed the important one.

[soulsearcher]

We have 21 couples who will be getting married this Sunday morning. Praise the Lord

[beckrl]

meet the criterion for salvation.

Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance!