In a class at Fuller Theological Seminary (TC500 - Theology & Culture) I read a book by Stuart Murray, Church after Christendom. In that book, Murray cites a lot of stats about people who are (a) leaving the church, but still self-identifying as Christians, and (b) people leaving the faith completely and self-identifying as agnostic or atheist.
Murray refers to them as leavers. My final project for the class was researching such leavers. I had a difficult time getting some to speak on camera, but not one-on-one. The one very nice man I got to speak on Skype/camera gave some interesting insights I thought some might find interesting.
My intent in this interview was NOT to confront, debate, or argue over faith (or lack of faith) but merely to seek more understanding of how one moves from singing "Jesus Loves Me" in Sunday School to being an atheist.
The video file is pretty large, and takes a while to load. Your feedback is welcomed.
INTERVIEW WITH A LEAVER VIDEO.
Watch & Learn
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Pastor Gary
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Watch & Learn
"God is excited to show you mercy. He rises to give you His compassion." (Isaiah 30:18)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
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Pastor Gary
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...anybody?
Did anybody actually WATCH the interview? Learn anything?
"God is excited to show you mercy. He rises to give you His compassion." (Isaiah 30:18)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
You might want to put on a public video site ( Youtube? ) that's not asking for a moblie me login?
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/9219/picture2.pdf
Although I have one.. others may not.
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/9219/picture2.pdf
Although I have one.. others may not.
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Pastor Gary
- Kahu Gary, Benevolent Dictator
- Posts: 10475
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Hmmmmmm
MacUser wrote:You might want to put on a public video site ( Youtube? ) that's not asking for a moblie me login?
http://img688.imageshack.us/img688/9219/picture2.pdf
Although I have one.. others may not.
I was under the impression that if I set the privacy settings correctly that file was viewable by ANYONE - never realized they had to have a ME account to view.
It is too big for YouTube.
"God is excited to show you mercy. He rises to give you His compassion." (Isaiah 30:18)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
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pastorables
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Pastor Gary
- Kahu Gary, Benevolent Dictator
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Can somebody try this new link?
Can somebody please try the video at this new link:
http://gallery.me.com/kahugary#100138
I need to know if that bypasses all the registration screens and makes the video viewable by the public.
Thanks.
http://gallery.me.com/kahugary#100138
I need to know if that bypasses all the registration screens and makes the video viewable by the public.
Thanks.
"God is excited to show you mercy. He rises to give you His compassion." (Isaiah 30:18)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
-
Pastor Gary
- Kahu Gary, Benevolent Dictator
- Posts: 10475
- Joined: January 28th, 2003, 9:03 pm
- Location: USA,Hawaii
- Contact:
Wait
RuSKY wrote:P.G.
When I go to the site, it just tries to load and nothing else.
If you have time, let it load... it's almost 30 minutes long and half a GIG in file size, so...
"God is excited to show you mercy. He rises to give you His compassion." (Isaiah 30:18)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
-
Pastor Gary
- Kahu Gary, Benevolent Dictator
- Posts: 10475
- Joined: January 28th, 2003, 9:03 pm
- Location: USA,Hawaii
- Contact:
Thanks
deb wrote:Came right up and instantly started playing for me.
Thank you!
"God is excited to show you mercy. He rises to give you His compassion." (Isaiah 30:18)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
I watched it. It's interesting, my pastor was raised in church and is an engineer, then moved away from Christianity and became atheist/agnostic, and then came back to Christ. I heard his testimony many years before we became members there.
Jinjer
Jinjer
Last edited by jinjer on March 23rd, 2010, 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yes, I watched it and it was interesting to see.
A very nice young man that has never really experienced the revelation of Christ and appears was jaded by similar teaching/preaching individuals that also never experienced Christ either.
As as Paul in 1 Timothy 1:3,4 warns against..
..so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4. nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work—which is by Faith.
Another key point that instantly divided him from seeking further and digging deeper past all the Church/Religious barriers was the Green Movement. He was apparently being indoctrinated at the same point by some artist's song, group of friends, ideological stance, fake environmental data ( as proven now ) etc. Combine that confusing moment with the law leavened - Christ less - good behavior teachings/preaching and it jaded him.
I have several more thoughts but these seem to be the most obvious.
A very nice young man that has never really experienced the revelation of Christ and appears was jaded by similar teaching/preaching individuals that also never experienced Christ either.
As as Paul in 1 Timothy 1:3,4 warns against..
..so that you may command certain men not to teach false doctrines any longer 4. nor to devote themselves to myths and endless genealogies. These promote controversies rather than God's work—which is by Faith.
Another key point that instantly divided him from seeking further and digging deeper past all the Church/Religious barriers was the Green Movement. He was apparently being indoctrinated at the same point by some artist's song, group of friends, ideological stance, fake environmental data ( as proven now ) etc. Combine that confusing moment with the law leavened - Christ less - good behavior teachings/preaching and it jaded him.
I have several more thoughts but these seem to be the most obvious.
Hey PG, checked out your video......good job on it and being open enough to allow him to express his feelings and thoughts without judgement (something he said christianity was plagued with "more than any other group")
Not to be judgmental
but I noticed he liked to talk about how much personal studying he has done but when he used the scripture of "judge not lest ye be judged", he misapplied it. 
And as far as christianity being hypocritical, has he paid attention to how intolerant most far left liberals are when it comes to anyone who disagrees with there positions?
Another point, he said he didn't like being "preached to". In my experience that ideology is usually held by people who don't want to be made to feel guilty over the choices and behaviors they adhere to. I mean i can't count the times that I have been in church and the pastor preaches on something that hits close to home. Like the times when I would be struggling with various thorns in my side and the message would be about those very things! Now I could have focused on how uncomfortable that made me feel or I could have used those messages to reevaluate my life and behaviors and used them as a means that that is how the Lord was communicating with me through the message. Rather than get all puffed up and think "how dare they preach on this and judge me", I looked at it a different way and became humbled by this revelation and tried to change my actions to be more biblically centered.
Many times, perhaps even subconsciously, our flesh is looking for a reason to defy the Spirit. If our ears can be tickled in such a way that we feel the church is against us then our flesh will jump on it and use it as a point of contention with the spirit.
This is what I think happened with this man and his connection to his music. The pastor cast a bad light on something he held dear, in this case his metallica music. Basically he, like the rich young ruler, couldn't part with something he desired (his love of the band) to be more committed to Christ. That pastor could have been dead wrong about his connection of the band and that particular song to being satanic....(I don't think he was but thats another topic)....but that really isn't the issue. The issue is that he wasn't able to accept the fact that sometimes he is required by the will of God to deny himself and his personal desires to favor of the will of God.
As a side note, I don't buy for a second that Metallica isn't a band of anti- christianity or anti-religion. If anyone has done any serious inquiry into many metal bands (and other genres) it is clear of there message of how they view organized religion (including christianity) and how they view it as oppressive and controlling. What this man has done was ignore the fact that the bands message is one of independence of religious observance and rather than reject the bands message he fell for it and left the faith. sad.
Not to be judgmental
but I noticed he liked to talk about how much personal studying he has done but when he used the scripture of "judge not lest ye be judged", he misapplied it. And as far as christianity being hypocritical, has he paid attention to how intolerant most far left liberals are when it comes to anyone who disagrees with there positions?
Another point, he said he didn't like being "preached to". In my experience that ideology is usually held by people who don't want to be made to feel guilty over the choices and behaviors they adhere to. I mean i can't count the times that I have been in church and the pastor preaches on something that hits close to home. Like the times when I would be struggling with various thorns in my side and the message would be about those very things! Now I could have focused on how uncomfortable that made me feel or I could have used those messages to reevaluate my life and behaviors and used them as a means that that is how the Lord was communicating with me through the message. Rather than get all puffed up and think "how dare they preach on this and judge me", I looked at it a different way and became humbled by this revelation and tried to change my actions to be more biblically centered.
Many times, perhaps even subconsciously, our flesh is looking for a reason to defy the Spirit. If our ears can be tickled in such a way that we feel the church is against us then our flesh will jump on it and use it as a point of contention with the spirit.
This is what I think happened with this man and his connection to his music. The pastor cast a bad light on something he held dear, in this case his metallica music. Basically he, like the rich young ruler, couldn't part with something he desired (his love of the band) to be more committed to Christ. That pastor could have been dead wrong about his connection of the band and that particular song to being satanic....(I don't think he was but thats another topic)....but that really isn't the issue. The issue is that he wasn't able to accept the fact that sometimes he is required by the will of God to deny himself and his personal desires to favor of the will of God.
As a side note, I don't buy for a second that Metallica isn't a band of anti- christianity or anti-religion. If anyone has done any serious inquiry into many metal bands (and other genres) it is clear of there message of how they view organized religion (including christianity) and how they view it as oppressive and controlling. What this man has done was ignore the fact that the bands message is one of independence of religious observance and rather than reject the bands message he fell for it and left the faith. sad.
"My eyes are ever on the Lord, for only He will release my feet from the snare." Psalm 25:15
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