COGOP Biblical Doctrine and Polity Committee

[Pastor Gary]

http://cogop.org/page.aspx?id=426568

[MacUser]

The Presence and Manifestations of the Holy Spirit

In a world that has become increasingly attracted to the cults, the media, and techno gadgets, the Holy Spirit’s presence is one key ingredient in our churches that can attract and fill the needs of people hungry for something beyond their daily life of drudgery.

Wow.. are people's daily life drudgery? Is the Holy Spirit opposite side of or verses Techno gadgets / glitzy media productions? Is the Holy Spirit a trick used? This just stuck out.

[macgulley]

While we embrace the earlier translations referenced in the 1961 and 1971 Assembly rulings, we also want to encourage our ministers to use other legitimate and reliable translations to plant the seed of the gospel of Jesus into every hungry heart and to inspire a deeper understanding of God.

Anyone want to guess what the new offshoot will be named when COGOP sanctions the use of Bibles other than The Authorized King James Version (GASP!!)?

[dolfan]

The Presence and Manifestations of the Holy Spirit

In a world that has become increasingly attracted to the cults, the media, and techno gadgets, the Holy Spirit’s presence is one key ingredient in our churches that can attract and fill the needs of people hungry for something beyond their daily life of drudgery.

Wow.. are people's daily life drudgery? Is the Holy Spirit opposite side of or verses Techno gadgets / glitzy media productions? Is the Holy Spirit a trick used? This just stuck out.

Okay .... usual disclaimers first: (1). I'm no longer COGOP, so I have no dog in this particular hunt for truth as it is aimed specifically at COGOP practice. (2). I'm no longer pentecostal, but I have no axe to grind with those who are and I fully hear without contest (at least for purposes of fellowship and gittin' along with each other) the assertions of traditional, classic Pentecostal faith.

Alright: Mac, I'm with you. What oozed out of that report to me was a bunch of old f@rtism, to be jovial about it. Not that God needs hip, current anything to communicate Himself to anyone or everyone, BUT, this report goes out of its way to backhand current culture without saying why and without giving the real alternative. Therefore, it looks like the sour grapes of grumpy old men. And, I KNOW that's not the case because I KNOW who are some of the people on the committee and I know you all know them and I know that you all are not that way.

Soooo ..... why this?? Where's this coming from?

Would it not have been more effective to simply say this?

The Church of God of Prophecy is rooted in the classic Pentecostal expressions of the Christian faith. We fully embrace and do not deny the expressions of the Holy Spirit in the lives of our individual members, those under our pastoral watchcare, and in our corporate gatherings as local bodies of Christ, as well as in our state, regional, national and international assemblies together.

As the members of this Committee have discussed with pastors and overseers, members and leaders throughout the Church of God of Prophecy around the globe, we have learned and do discern that those expressions of the Holy Spirit which have marked the Pentecostal faith in Christ and which we hold as necessary for the vitality of the body of Christ and the spread of the kingdom of God are, in our day and time, all the more necessary and all the more desirable. The Christian faith is growing around the world; most of the expansion of the influence of Jesus Christ in our cultures today occurs through Pentecostal fellowships such as the Church of God of Prophecy. Realizing the need for the presence and activity of the Holy Spirit among us, and understanding through Him that He is adding to His body daily through fellowships such as ours, it is a heavy burden to see that we may somehow be found lacking in the experience of the presence and power of the Holy Spirit.

Therefore, we commit to this Assembly for affirmation, and therefrom to all of the local churches of the Church of God of Prophecy throughout the world, that it is the intent and desire of the Church of God of Prophecy, wherever it may be found, that the fulness of the Holy Spirit be purposely, deliberately and enthusiastically sought and practiced in every form of manifestation in which the Spirit has expressed Himself in the New Testament and in which He wishes to express Himself in this day and in each culture. We acknowledge that the past and present Pentecostal faith has seen its shares of excesses and even failures where carnal people live according to the desires of the flesh; yet, we acknowledge that the power of Christ, the truth of God's Word, and the desires of the Father to continue to pour out His Spirit upon all flesh supercedes and overcomes the sinfulness of people, and that He is capable to guide us into disciplined faith that does not walk into excess or stumble into failure. God has given us the necessary "equipment" through His Word, by the example of His Son, and through the fellowship and accountability of this Body to "furnish us unto every good work" so that we need not fear that which is excellent in favor of that which is weak.

We recommend to each pastor, leader, member and to each believer under the pastoral care of any ministry of this church, that the Holy Spirit and all of the fulness of His gifts be sought and exercised liberally in all of our lives, all of our gatherings and all of our fellowships.

..... or something like that.

[darylscook]

The Presence and Manifestations of the Holy Spirit

In a world that has become increasingly attracted to the cults, the media, and techno gadgets, the Holy Spirit’s presence is one key ingredient in our churches that can attract and fill the needs of people hungry for something beyond their daily life of drudgery.

Wow.. are people's daily life drudgery? Is the Holy Spirit opposite side of or verses Techno gadgets / glitzy media productions? Is the Holy Spirit a trick used? This just stuck out.

Is it wrong for us to recognize that people out there are looking for something more..... I like the statement above! Young people are looking for the supernatural! They are moving to cults, wiki boards, etc. We need to make sure that we are allowing the Holy Ghost freedom to move because the hunger they have is really for Him! If we quench the moving of the spirit, we are hindering His work. And, I agree, for those that are not Christians, they need something more than their daily life of drudgery. And, We have the Answers. The most important being Jesus Christ. Also, a key ingredient in our churches is the presence of the Holy Ghost! NOT A TRICK! NOT A GADGET! The REAL THING!


Pastor Daryl

[MacUser]

Daryl,
It just stands out. Sorry. It one man's perspective.

1) I just don't think most young people consider their lives drudgery. It's an exciting time for a healthy young person.. as things are new & fresh. The future is in front. This on a whole is a comment that is reflected from an older perspective.

2) Looking for something? Absolutely! But you are not going to win the younger base by going against.. inanimate objects / pop culture icons. Us traditional verses them liberal model again is an older ideal etc. You win by shinning YOUR light brightly, living LIFE ABUNDANTLY as you lift up our savior Jesus.

Then you keep them by sharing with them whom they are now as Sons and Daughters... heirs with Christ. Inviting that precious Holy Spirit in our hearts to change lives and make them into the image of Christ that all of us are called to be.

God Bless!

[RamboPreacher]

I understand the F&S doc had some changes a month ago, but what's new on the4 affirmation docs?

[dawgs10]

couldnt stay away from this. There are things that a church with our history and heritage can never forget or replace with a iphone or a point by point online sermon with bells and whistles. we can never replace an outpouring of the Holy Spirit with a power point educational session. we must remain a Spirit Filled Church. We can do without alot of things but not the outward and inward moving of the Spirit of God. it doesnt make the bells and whistles bad. just not where the rubber meets the road. i think thats what is being said here.

[Pastor Gary]

The Presence and Manifestations of the Holy Spirit

In a world that has become increasingly attracted to the cults, the media, and techno gadgets, the Holy Spirit’s presence is one key ingredient in our churches that can attract and fill the needs of people hungry for something beyond their daily life of drudgery.

Wow.. are people's daily life drudgery? Is the Holy Spirit opposite side of or verses Techno gadgets / glitzy media productions? Is the Holy Spirit a trick used? This just stuck out.

Is it wrong for us to recognize that people out there are looking for something more..... I like the statement above! Young people are looking for the supernatural! They are moving to cults, wiki boards, etc. We need to make sure that we are allowing the Holy Ghost freedom to move because the hunger they have is really for Him! If we quench the moving of the spirit, we are hindering His work. And, I agree, for those that are not Christians, they need something more than their daily life of drudgery. And, We have the Answers. The most important being Jesus Christ. Also, a key ingredient in our churches is the presence of the Holy Ghost! NOT A TRICK! NOT A GADGET! The REAL THING!

Daryl, I think --for me-- a lot of this is context and perspective. I have a pretty young demographic at my church, and I don't see them looking so much for "something beyond their daily life of drudgery" at all. If anything, I'd say I more often see an attitude of "I am rich and have need of nothing."

I believe that, yes, young (and OLD) people desire the supernatural, if by supernatural, you mean that which only God can do. I don't see much desire for hyper-emotional worship experiences, though that may be more cultural than anything.

If given a choice of seeing more FRUIT of the Spirit or more MANIFESTATIONS of the Spirit, I'll take fruit every time. But, that's just me.

[dawgs10]

couldnt stay away from this. There are things that a church with our history and heritage can never forget or replace with a iphone or a point by point online sermon with bells and whistles. we can never replace an outpouring of the Holy Spirit with a power point educational session. we must remain a Spirit Filled Church. We can do without alot of things but not the outward and inward moving of the Spirit of God. it doesnt make the bells and whistles bad. just not where the rubber meets the road. i think thats what is being said here.

and i agree with it 100%

[PastorP]

You can take my opinion along with 5 or 6 $ to Starbucks and get a great Frap! I don't think that we are losing young people because of living a life of drudgery or not finding something at church more exciting then a Wii.

Could we possibly be suffering because of past years of fanatical, almost cult like teaching and leadership. We need a divine move of the Holy Spirit so that we become a spiritual church with depth that goes beyond the shout and extends to the operation of the Spiritual Gifts. I still believe if we will allow the Holy Spirit to direct us in our feeding (Worship,etc.) that the hungry will come to the table.

[Pastor Gary]

You can take my opinion along with 5 or 6 $ to Starbucks and get a great Frap! I don't think that we are losing young people because of living a life of drudgery or not finding something at church more exciting then a Wii.

Could we possibly be suffering because of past years of fanatical, almost cult like teaching and leadership. We need a divine move of the Holy Spirit so that we become a spiritual church with depth that goes beyond the shout and extends to the operation of the Spiritual Gifts. I still believe if we will allow the Holy Spirit to direct us in our feeding (Worship,etc.) that the hungry will come to the table.

That'll preach!

[jdavis]

You can take my opinion along with 5 or 6 $ to Starbucks and get a great Frap! I don't think that we are losing young people because of living a life of drudgery or not finding something at church more exciting then a Wii.

Could we possibly be suffering because of past years of fanatical, almost cult like teaching and leadership. We need a divine move of the Holy Spirit so that we become a spiritual church with depth that goes beyond the shout and extends to the operation of the Spiritual Gifts. I still believe if we will allow the Holy Spirit to direct us in our feeding (Worship,etc.) that the hungry will come to the table.

Great post Pastor!!!!! You spoke my sentiments exactly. In my humble opinion that, by the way is worth less than yours, this document will only give credence to the scream prayers and the over emotional folks that have freightened off many of the younger generation in the church already!!!

[Pastor Gary]

You can take my opinion along with 5 or 6 $ to Starbucks and get a great Frap! I don't think that we are losing young people because of living a life of drudgery or not finding something at church more exciting then a Wii.

Could we possibly be suffering because of past years of fanatical, almost cult like teaching and leadership. We need a divine move of the Holy Spirit so that we become a spiritual church with depth that goes beyond the shout and extends to the operation of the Spiritual Gifts. I still believe if we will allow the Holy Spirit to direct us in our feeding (Worship,etc.) that the hungry will come to the table.

Great post Pastor!!!!! You spoke my sentiments exactly. In my humble opinion that, by the way is worth less than yours, this document will only give credence to the scream prayers and the over emotional folks that have freightened off many of the younger generation in the church already!!!

The irony --for me-- is that at a time when we are educating our ministry about the foibles and excesses of our history, we may be repeating one of the errors of our history by erasing everything we have made our focus for the last decade-- return to the harvest, vibrant local churches, future-looking... and now the wording of this report that seems to put us, once again, in the defensive mode: us-against-the-worldly-distractions.

I really like dolfan's suggested wording, and wish they would hire him as a consultant to write the final versions of these reports!

Seriously: nobody wants to suppress any genuine manifestation of the Holy Spirit; that would be idiocy. I suspect that more pastors have seen their churches hindered by craziness blamed on "a move of the Spirit" than have see their churches hindered by lack the Spirit's moving, but that's just an opinion based upon zero research.

[dawgs10]

You can take my opinion along with 5 or 6 $ to Starbucks and get a great Frap! I don't think that we are losing young people because of living a life of drudgery or not finding something at church more exciting then a Wii.

Could we possibly be suffering because of past years of fanatical, almost cult like teaching and leadership. We need a divine move of the Holy Spirit so that we become a spiritual church with depth that goes beyond the shout and extends to the operation of the Spiritual Gifts. I still believe if we will allow the Holy Spirit to direct us in our feeding (Worship,etc.) that the hungry will come to the table.

Great post Pastor!!!!! You spoke my sentiments exactly. In my humble opinion that, by the way is worth less than yours, this document will only give credence to the scream prayers and the over emotional folks that have freightened off many of the younger generation in the church already!!!

The irony --for me-- is that at a time when we are educating our ministry about the foibles and excesses of our history, we may be repeating one of the errors of our history by erasing everything we have made our focus for the last decade-- return to the harvest, vibrant local churches, future-looking... and now the wording of this report that seems to put us, once again, in the defensive mode: us-against-the-worldly-distractions.

I really like dolfan's suggested wording, and wish they would hire him as a consultant to write the final versions of these reports!

Seriously: nobody wants to suppress any genuine manifestation of the Holy Spirit; that would be idiocy. I suspect that more pastors have seen their churches hindered by craziness blamed on "a move of the Spirit" than have see their churches hindered by lack the Spirit's moving, but that's just an opinion based upon zero research.

my opinion pastor gary is we have been so worried the last 15 years about wildfire we have thrown water on the real thing. its easier to put out a fire than to start one with wet wood. unless your Elijah. we have found this in the last three years at my local church. people want to experience the Holy Spirit. no matter what their background. when they come to our church they are there to experience a move of the Holy Ghost. We have what people want. so why would we hide it. tonight we start a series of service we are Calling camp meetings with focus on the moving of The Holy Ghost in the last days. we have invited pastors from churchs that are not spirit filled. we are praying that when its over they will be. then and only then will our community be changed by the power of God. is this not what the document is pointing to or have i missed it?