COGOP Biblical Doctrine and Polity Committee

[PastorP]

my opinion pastor gary is we have been so worried the last 15 years about wildfire we have thrown water on the real thing. its easier to put out a fire than to start one with wet wood. unless your Elijah. we have found this in the last three years at my local church. people want to experience the Holy Spirit. no matter what their background. when they come to our church they are there to experience a move of the Holy Ghost. We have what people want. so why would we hide it. tonight we start a series of service we are Calling camp meetings with focus on the moving of The Holy Ghost in the last days. we have invited pastors from churchs that are not spirit filled. we are praying that when its over they will be. then and only then will our community be changed by the power of God. is this not what the document is pointing to or have i missed it?

Thank God I am still serving the same God as Elijah! I don't have to be Elijah to have a relationship with God that will enable the Holy Spirit to give evidence of His presence when the truth of the word is spoken under the anointing of the Holy Spirit. There is nothing wrong with physical manifestations when they are brought about by the direction of the Holy Spirit, but manifestations of the flesh will destroy and not build up. I for one feel that we must continue to seek for a closer relationship w/God and not advertise self-righteousness through fleshly manifestions.

[dawgs10]

i agree with you and the elijah remark was suppose to be a side bar statement. the issue i see is that we have quenched the spirit in our local churchs worrying ,is it of God. our north american presb. said in a sermon once that if we have a close enough relationship with God we dont have to go around looking for things that are not of God. if we know God we know when its his spirit that is moving. kind of like when the feds train to reconize fake money. they study the real thing, not the fake money. there is nothing more dry than a dry pentecostal chruch. there are people desiring a move of the Holy Ghost. are we offering it or hiding it?

[dawgs10]

i agree with you and the elijah remark was suppose to be a side bar statement. the issue i see is that we have quenched the spirit in our local churchs worrying ,is it of God. our north american presb. said in a sermon once that if we have a close enough relationship with God we dont have to go around looking for things that are not of God. if we know God we know when its his spirit that is moving. kind of like when the feds train to reconize fake money. they study the real thing, not the fake money. there is nothing more dry than a dry pentecostal chruch. there are people desiring a move of the Holy Ghost. are we offering it or hiding it?

and something else you should know in this convo. my church is known as a quiet church thats careful to allow the real thing to move the way the new testament tells us to. we are not a wildfire church. this is a perspective from a quiet, spirit filled cogop.

[MacUser]

You can take my opinion along with 5 or 6 $ to Starbucks and get a great Frap! I don't think that we are losing young people because of living a life of drudgery or not finding something at church more exciting then a Wii.

Could we possibly be suffering because of past years of fanatical, almost cult like teaching and leadership. We need a divine move of the Holy Spirit so that we become a spiritual church with depth that goes beyond the shout and extends to the operation of the Spiritual Gifts. I still believe if we will allow the Holy Spirit to direct us in our feeding (Worship,etc.) that the hungry will come to the table.

Bravo! Well said... oh previous honored Pastor of mine.

[MacUser]

repeating one of the errors of our history by erasing everything we have made our focus for the last decade-- return to the harvest, vibrant local churches, future-looking... and now the wording of this report that seems to put us, once again, in the [b]defensive mode: us-against-the-worldly-distractions.[/b]

..,. Seriously: nobody wants to suppress any genuine manifestation of the Holy Spirit; that would be idiocy.

Again.. well said.. and very close to my original perspective.. but just much better said.

As of an immediate rethink on direction... most Christians today are suffering from an identity crisis imho. They don't know whom they are and exactly what is required from them under the new covenant with Jesus Christ. This is why they are so easily tempted/destroyed and/or swayed to follow x because they lack foundation. Fear destroys them and withholds from relationship. We've pumped up and not grounded.

You can't fully demonstrate the power until you understand the free Gospel. If heavenly power were to be unleashed without a full understanding the individuals/church/group will just attempt to claim it for individual glory and/or advancements.

Identity theft is absolutely terrible.

[free]

So, how will this report affect your local congregation? I thought so, it will have no impact at all.

The "wildfire" churches will still be wildfire...The more conserative churches will be conserative, etc, etc. This report will in no way change my ministry style or the style of my church which is often described as "Baptistcostal."

Neither will the report on which version of the Bible (KJV) the international offices says we "endorse" change the way I preach. I will still use many versions to try to reach the people in my community with the Gospel as necessary...And yes, that includes the KJV from time to time.

OK, now back to the "drudgery" of my day!

[beckrl]

I guess with this affrimation and allowing other translations the minister preaching wasn't getting his point across, so now he will!

[Pastor Gary]

So, how will this report affect your local congregation? I thought so, it will have no impact at all.

You are correct. It is largely an empty effort to enforce the uniformity we once had as part of our ecclesial identity, and will amount to pretty much nothing in actual practice in the field. It will, however, give credence to the hyper-emotional, extremely demonstrative folks who love to draw attention to themselves by cutting loose at odd times during public worship... a pastor trying to get things back into Biblical order could find himself confronted with a copy of this Assembly ruling as a mandate for anything-goes.

I would really like to know the origins of this topic in the first place... what prompted the committee to even have the discussion? Are there secret enclaves of Spirit-quenchers about?

[Phil Hoover]

So, how will this report affect your local congregation? I thought so, it will have no impact at all.

You are correct. It is largely an empty effort to enforce the uniformity we once had as part of our ecclesial identity, and will amount to pretty much nothing in actual practice in the field. It will, however, give credence to the hyper-emotional, extremely demonstrative folks who love to draw attention to themselves by cutting loose at odd times during public worship... a pastor trying to get things back into Biblical order could find himself confronted with a copy of this Assembly ruling as a mandate for anything-goes.

I would really like to know the origins of this topic in the first place... what prompted the committee to even have the discussion? Are there secret enclaves of Spirit-quenchers about?

Tim McCaleb was my pastor, and has been a good friend now for about 30 years....want his number, so you can call and ask him?

[Pastor Gary]

So, how will this report affect your local congregation? I thought so, it will have no impact at all.

You are correct. It is largely an empty effort to enforce the uniformity we once had as part of our ecclesial identity, and will amount to pretty much nothing in actual practice in the field. It will, however, give credence to the hyper-emotional, extremely demonstrative folks who love to draw attention to themselves by cutting loose at odd times during public worship... a pastor trying to get things back into Biblical order could find himself confronted with a copy of this Assembly ruling as a mandate for anything-goes.

I would really like to know the origins of this topic in the first place... what prompted the committee to even have the discussion? Are there secret enclaves of Spirit-quenchers about?

Tim McCaleb was my pastor, and has been a good friend now for about 30 years....want his number, so you can call and ask him?

No point, Phil. Several of the people on this Committee are my peers AND my friends, and I have as much access to them as anyone. They are, IMHO, fine, honorable men with good intentions... I just happen to think this particular item is poorly worded and not necessary.

[free]

I agree with you Pastor G...Poorly worded indeed! I recently had to ask a family to tone down their emotional outburst during service or leave...They chose to leave because I would not give them free reign during services.

I'm not opposed to the outward display of the Spirit but this report bothers me and I feel that it is completely unnecessary. Unfortunately it doesn't matter what I or anyone else thinks since it's informative only.

[dawgs10]

the latest study i have seen is that only 50% in the pentecostal church are Holy Ghost filled. i know understand why.

[TW]

How can you do a statistical study, on a subject that from an observers view is purely subjective, and arrive at a definitive number?


TW

[dawgs10]

subjectivity has nothing to do with the fact that you are either baptized in the Holy Ghost w/ signs following or not my friend. 47 % of ministers in the SBA say they support the understanding of a private prayer language. and yet the SBA refuses to accept a private prayer language to be real. the fact is the pentecostal church is on their way if the views on this disussion forum is as wide spread in COGOP as i fear. We have become fearful of the unknown. even when the unknown is in the book of Acts. so i guess its not the unknown. just unused. we need a deep revival. We need pastors and members that have a close relationship with God. When God shows up we say "hey i know you". and when its not of God we say" i dont know who you are but your not God". its that simple. We need a close enough relationship with God that we know who he is when he moves and then we can stop crossing our fingers and hoping that wild fire dont break out. we can have a relationless religion if we want i suppose. as far as a Holy Ghost time, we had one last night at triple c. guess what, it was in order. it always is when its God.

[dawgs10]

i would submit galatians 3:3. Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now going to be made complete by the flesh? (Holman csb version) words from the Word of God that will give wisdom on both sides of the subject.