Companies considered dropping Health Care?

[dawgs10]

ok one love. cut salaries midlevel up first of course. what other answer would expect. look, you know what i am talking about. the companies that have many, many, levels or (to many chiefs, not enough indians). the at&t of the world. the companies listed in the first message on this thread. anyone can come up with a company that is running lean and say its not fair, boo,hoo. its not been fair for years with the working single mom not being offered insureance while the ceo and his buddies go on weekend getaways payed for by the company. do you pretend like that dont happen. come on, you know what i am talking about.

again they have all taken a pay cut already due to the economy and still have good insurance. your idea is to break them to do what the gov. wants which would result in them losing coverage and taking another pay cut..

Your post is against freedom and you dont realize it. You are actually saying what business owners can or cant do because of their success and the lack of success of someone else.....
I know a family that is very LOW income and they are insured through medicaid, whole family and they get $500 a month in grocery money through food stamps......... so dont act as if there is not already a hundred other programs for these people. BTW my sister is a single mom as well with 2 kids and she qualifies for all these benefits as well????? so why should we steal money from companies that create jobs and that actually build the economy? whether or not if they fly in jets or not...

onelove, the freedom i know does not make me free to ignore those that work and still cant provide because of companies like at&t. sorry i just dont see it.

[dawgs10]

it has come to my attention that there are some on jude 2 that dont understand the difference between a bill and a law. check out this link from school house rock. it may help.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEJL2Uuv-oQ

[MacUser]

ignore those that work and still cant provide because of companies like at&t. sorry i just dont see it.

What about ignoring ineffective, out of control Govt? It's literally like a drunk that is on a spending spree except it's working hard at giving everything away from it's grandchildren.. essentially living way above it's means and people simply ignore it?

See what's happening to Greece? The Bank of England says we're next. Our Countries borders are not being protected resulting in crime, murder, theft, kidnapping, NO LAW and our highest elected officials have entered a war of disinformation against a STATE to simply get a political vote for one party.

What about the CBO magically X2 adjusting what this HC Bill is going to cost our Grandchildren? Are you still not ignoring this tidbit? It's like Nancy Pelosi stating that we have to PASS the bill before we can find out what is inside of it? Insane.

Dawgs.. it comes down to personal responsibility on ALL parties. Attacking the private sector while ignoring the bankrupt Govt isn't having you eyes fully open.

Beam me up scotty.

[dawgs10]

i agree with you macuser. it will take both sides doing the right thing.

[MacUser]

i agree with you macuser. it will take both sides doing the right thing.

Sadly the right thing is going to be for Govt to reign in spending period. The focus return to seriously reducing this overwhelming burden on our grandchildren by reducing entitlements and encouraging personal responsibility. This is beyond debate.

And until our newer elected officials prove they can mange that first. The social redistribution will have to only continue thru the Church instead.

[dawgs10]

the issue i have with that is there are many people that are hurting and cannot be helped if we take a hard line such as no help,for no body and if you cant help yourself to bad approch. so, we must balance common sense with being conservative.

[MacUser]

the issue i have with that is there are many people that are hurting and cannot be helped if we take a hard line such as no help,for no body and if you cant help yourself to bad approch. so, we must balance common sense with being conservative.

This is where the Church, Charities, Christ based people [ enter yourself here ] step in. This is also where the Church Body has lost so much ground because it has relegated it's responsibility to ineffective institutions that has done nothing but further destroy our families and saddle our children with out of control debt. I mean.. which help would you want most? Jesus is the Savior, Trust in him, here is food for today... or here is $3000 per month go continue to act like a heathen?

Jesus didn't come to right social justices, condemn.. he came to Save. I imagine that John the Baptist was probably offended that Jesus didn't clean house and take military control.. but Jesus simply healed, restored, taught truth with amazing love. When John's disciples asked as if they were look to another... Jesus basically said.. look at what I am doing [ ergo - I am HE period ] , healing, loving, restoring relationship... rather than correcting social wrongs or being harmfully militant.

Dawgs... We should know better! And deep down we do. Shame on us all for letting these ungodly institutions take our place, destroy our families and saddle our future generations.

[dawgs10]

mac, we are dreaming if we think the church has the finances to do what the gov. can. thats a dream.

[Full Quiver]

Bills become laws when both houses of Congress pass said bill and the president either signs it or he vetoes it and then a super majority of Congress overrides his veto


Again, a law does not rise above the Constitution and this law does not make universal healthcare a Constitutional right. Would you like to be taught about Constitutional amendments now?


Let me show you an example.

I am a project manager for a union electrical firm. We employ members of the IBEW. The IBEW was very vocal in the push for the healthcare bill; they are all for it (don't ask me why). The IBEW has negotiated in their contract great health care insurance, great stuff. I called the local office and asked why are you pushing this? See the IBEW teases non union electricians with the fact that IF you join the union you can have health insurance for yourself and your entire family even with conditions that might otherwise prevent you from being covered. No out of pocket costs for premiums either.

The response given me was that if the healthcare bill passes then the IBEW can remove the healthcare insurance from their negotiated package, require the contractor to put that extra money (over $5 an hour) on the worker's check and simply put all it's members on the govt. toll.

Now you say that's un-Constitutional and yet one of the very groups that lobbied for the bill wants to do just that.

My suspicion is that the govt. really wants these things to happen so that they can roll over to a single payer system quicker.

[dawgs10]

i am sure thats the case. but the fact is your story is one of millions. and like it or not Dr. full quiver, its a law, not a bill. so start calling it a law. the quicker we figure that out the better it will be for everyone. now, yes what you are saying is an issue. attach something to this to make it against the law for unions and corp america to do that. problem solved. if we want to make this thing work for everyone, then we need to work on it from the inside. changing what needs to be changed while keeping what needs to be kept. fine unions and corp. industry that will try to work around the law. we do it with taxes why not this. no loop holes. i am voting against every single person in office during this time, no matter their voting record. clean house. get people in that you can depend on, but please stop spitting in the wind. it just hits you in the face.
ITS A LAW. its like people are holding their breath untill they get their way, or they have their fingers in thier ears saying la, la, la, i cant hear you.

[MacUser]

mac, we are dreaming if we think the church has the finances to do what the gov. can. thats a dream.

Dawgs.. Dreaming? We are living a self fulfilling nightmare right now.. if we think the Govt can continue to spend money it doesn't have. Borrow untold billions from other nations to pay our social programs today and when our kids children won't be able to afford the interest note. This has to stop now.

And what's worse is the individuals that will rationalize this out of control spending today at future generations expense. It's the epitome of greed and selfishness. The corrective answer is simply called being responsible for your own actions and living within your means.

And on this thought of the Church being woefully ineffective. It depends on what your goals are. Take Paul on this very website is able to help change lives in other nations without any money from our Federal Govt or the visiting nation's peoples they are so visiting. Changing real lives and not just offering them a paycheck to continue in the same way they are living.

See his thread:
http://www.jude2.com/viewtopic.php?t=27161

Dwell on this.
God Bless

[dawgs10]

mac, i really think we agree more than you know. i just cant justify pulling the carpet out from under those that are working and still cant provide because of a system that has been set up for those with money. i know the gov. cant go on like this but the answer is not to stop those programs that people depend on for there very lives. and yes alot of those people are working hard, they are working hard and not moving forward not because of the gov. but because of the system put in place by those that "own the world" and will not give up another dollar because that would mean they would have to put off the summer trip or the new house or car. yes the church can help and they are helping, but they cannot provide insurence cost that has been going up for years. long before the health care law. insurence that people cant afford not because of the gov. but because of the bottom line. it should not cost a years pay to stay a week in the hospital no matter how you justify it. but hospitals and doctors charge that much because they can. and then they blame it on the insurence and the insurence blaims it on the doctors. the system is broken with no intention to fix it by those that were in charge of it and now they are not in charge of it any longer because they would not act. should the federal gov. take things over like this. NO. but if people will not act the federal gov. will every time.

[dolfan]

mac, we are dreaming if we think the church has the finances to do what the gov. can. thats a dream.

Dawgs.. Dreaming? We are living a self fulfilling nightmare right now.. if we think the Govt can continue to spend money it doesn't have. Borrow untold billions from other nations to pay our social programs today and when our kids children won't be able to afford the interest note. This has to stop now.

And what's worse is the individuals that will rationalize this out of control spending today at future generations expense. It's the epitome of greed and selfishness. The corrective answer is simply called being responsible for your own actions and living within your means.

And on this thought of the Church being woefully ineffective. It depends on what your goals are. Take Paul on this very website is able to help change lives in other nations without any money from our Federal Govt or the visiting nation's peoples they are so visiting. Changing real lives and not just offering them a paycheck to continue in the same way they are living.

See his thread:
http://www.jude2.com/viewtopic.php?t=27161

Dwell on this.
God Bless

The Feds don't have the money to do it either. See here.

We have a crisis of expectation as well as a fiscal crisis and a responsibility crisis. We have been duped into thinking and relying upon the structures of the world's order of things as opposed to the order of things in the world that the church ought to produce. If the church "can't" do something, it is only because it has refused to do it OR because it has allowed others outside it to dictate what it ought to be doing. We should not expect, even if the church were suddenly willing and ready to step up and do what it should about the welfare of its people, that a seamless transition would happen. No. Great gaps and tremendous lowering of expectations in terms of convenience and availability of resources would occur by necessity. The trade-off, though, would be to unplug from the kingdom of Satan. I'd take 1960's health care standards, for example, any day if we could cast off the civil structures that rule us now in exchange for a real, organic and living submission to one another and a commitment to share all things in common with one another.

[MacUser]

should not cost a years pay to stay a week in the hospital no matter how you justify it.

No where have I tried to justify it? I'm saying the Feds can't manage their own home much less manage a your medical care. Why is a worse solution the answer?

should the federal gov. take things over like this. NO. but if people will not act the federal gov. will every time.

And every time you will get a worse system that what currently exists at our willing expense to heap untold debt and burden on our Children/Grandchildren. Taxing Grandchildren/future generations so we can get affordable healthcare, social programs that we "deserve" right now... is never the answer.

Manage and only offer the resources we can now - which is extremely limited. Please don't support robbing tomorrow to pay for the easy ride today. That model is doomed to failure.

Absolute Budgets, Balanced, Paying back debt is what we MUST focus on TODAY.

[MacUser]

We have been duped into thinking and relying upon the structures of the world's order of things as opposed to the order of things in the world that the church ought to produce. If the church "can't" do something, it is only because it has refused to do it OR because it has allowed others outside it to dictate what it ought to be doing.

Bravo. Jesus didn't come for social justice.