Palin, Beck and Limbaugh

[Pastor Gary]

Call me crazy (go ahead. I won't get offended. ) BUT....I would think that since most Christians want a government that is basically a theocracy (want to make sure that abortion is illegal, disallow gay marriage and other things because they go against the Bible etc) that they'd be perfectly happy to have their theocratical government take up Jesus' cause to take care of the poor, the sick, the hungry....

.....ya know.....just saying......



and yo...dawgs......glad that i'm not the only one round these parts that feels that way

Okay. Let's start with: "For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat.""
2 Thessalonians 3:10 (New International Version)

[dawgs10]

Call me crazy (go ahead. I won't get offended. ) BUT....I would think that since most Christians want a government that is basically a theocracy (want to make sure that abortion is illegal, disallow gay marriage and other things because they go against the Bible etc) that they'd be perfectly happy to have their theocratical government take up Jesus' cause to take care of the poor, the sick, the hungry....

.....ya know.....just saying......



and yo...dawgs......glad that i'm not the only one round these parts that feels that way

Okay. Let's start with: "For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: "If a man will not work, he shall not eat.""
2 Thessalonians 3:10 (New International Version)

true pastor gary and i agree with you and that scripture is the word of God. one word that must be noted. will. what about that those that cant. Jesus spoke about those as well.

[MacUser]

Call me crazy (go ahead. I won't get offended. ) BUT....I would think that since most Christians want a government that is basically a theocracy (want to make sure that abortion is illegal, disallow gay marriage and other things because they go against the Bible etc) that they'd be perfectly happy to have their theocratical government take up Jesus' cause to take care of the poor, the sick, the hungry....

.....ya know.....just saying

Sadly Jesus didn't come for social justice.. Btw glad to see you on board!

[dawgs10]

dawgs,
As usual, you are completely wrong! We all know that we have certain taxes that must be paid. And if they were enacted by congress in a legal manner there is no problem with them. As for responsibility, yes, we as Christians have responsibilities to help those in need. That in no way equates to "it's the government job." That is dumping our obligations as Christians onto a secular government, one which has no legal mandate or authorization to fill that function.

You have repeatedly demonstrated that you do not know history, understand civics or the economy, and refuse to learn when someone tries to teach you something. Do everybody a favor and just keep quite.


TW

i have given quotes, ideas, history, and so on so many times i cant count. they just dont agree with your view. so i must be dumb and should shut up. Not gonna happen.

and by the way, if we were on the play gound you would have just pushed me and said what are you gonna do about it. (childish)

[thatonegirl]

I agree with Dawgs. the issue is if the person will or won't work. There are some people who just truly CAN'T work. and maybe the church should take care of all of those people. Soooo...are you going to step up your offerings to the church to help take care of them??

I'm sure i'm wasting my breath because you are probably all die-hard conservative republicans

Personally....I am registered as an independant but i'm sure you can smell my Liberal thoughts and ideas.. ..like blood in the water

[one love]

I agree with Dawgs. the issue is if the person will or won't work. There are some people who just truly CAN'T work. and maybe the church should take care of all of those people. Soooo...are you going to step up your offerings to the church to help take care of them??

I'm sure i'm wasting my breath because you are probably all die-hard conservative republicans

Personally....I am registered as an independant but i'm sure you can smell my Liberal thoughts and ideas.. ..like blood in the water

Believe it or not I have no issue with people that are not able to work and need assistance, but that is not what is happening. I wonder while you toss the bible around to defend health care (even though the poor can get $500 IN groceries a month, medicaid for insurance and a house that the rent is paid for)
None the less you are on the side that votes against all that the bible stands for. They are against christian movements and how can you support abortion is BEYOND me. Please show me that in the bible.

The new taxes will crush our economy. every nation that the government controls most of the economy and has socialist issues are the poorest of nations. we were the envy of the world prior to this take over and European envy...

[Pastor Gary]

I agree with Dawgs. the issue is if the person will or won't work. There are some people who just truly CAN'T work.

Yes. Those are the people for whom the social safety net welfare system was originally intended and created. Those among society unABLE to care for themselves are the collective responsibility of us all. Will you acknowledge that that system is out of control, and the abuses are many?

I personally know families who have been on public assistance for THREE GENERATIONS. Instead of helping their children get an education, learn a trade or get a job, they teach them how to "work the programs." They know where every government office is, which forms must be submitted, and the "correct" answers to questions to max the benefits, to which they believe they are entitled simply for occupying space on the planet. They pick a child or two and train them to fail the test given for what they call a "crazy check." These kinds of tales can be multiplied by the hundreds-of-thousands, leading to the welfare Cadillac cliché. It is not racial, either; the abusers are white, black and brown.

...and maybe the church should take care of all of those people. Soooo...are you going to step up your offerings to the church to help take care of them??

GREAT idea. Let's have the government stop trying to replace the church as the source of help, drastically cut entitlement programs, and all the taxation that supports them, and leave that money in the pockets of the citizens who earned it b y the sweat of their brow. I'll make a prediction: if that happened, Americans, being the most generous people on earth, and CONSERVATIVES who always lead in every poll on charitable giving, would see that every worthy needy person survived. I also predict, that bums, leeches, welfare-cheats, recreational druggies (who render themselves unemployable by never passing an employment screening drug test) would be left to fend for themselves. After the initial shock, 99% of them would suddenly develop a work ethic. Hunger is a tremendous motivator. (I know, having BEEN there before.)

I'm sure i'm wasting my breath because you are probably all die-hard conservative republicans

You have confused two terms. Conservative ≠ Republican, and Republican REALLY ≠ Conservative. That's why wishy-washy semi-lib Republicans are finding themselves getting thrown out of office to be replaced by true conservatives.

Personally....I am registered as an independant but i'm sure you can smell my Liberal thoughts and ideas.. ..like blood in the water

Personally, I am not registered as ANYTHING, and I vote for both Democrat and Republican candidates based upon which most closely adheres to my understanding of Biblical values. My local State Representative is a Buddhist Democrat who stood against Same-sex marriage while some local Republicans voted for it. Party labels are so 90s and mean nothing any more.

[dawgs10]

I agree with Dawgs. the issue is if the person will or won't work. There are some people who just truly CAN'T work.

Yes. Those are the people for whom the social safety net welfare system was originally intended and created. Those among society unABLE to care for themselves are the collective responsibility of us all. Will you acknowledge that that system is out of control, and the abuses are many?

I personally know families who have been on public assistance for THREE GENERATIONS. Instead of helping their children get an education, learn a trade or get a job, they teach them how to "work the programs." They know where every government office is, which forms must be submitted, and the "correct" answers to questions to max the benefits, to which they believe they are entitled simply for occupying space on the planet. They pick a child or two and train them to fail the test given for what they call a "crazy check." These kinds of tales can be multiplied by the hundreds-of-thousands, leading to the welfare Cadillac cliché. It is not racial, either; the abusers are white, black and brown.

...and maybe the church should take care of all of those people. Soooo...are you going to step up your offerings to the church to help take care of them??

GREAT idea. Let's have the government stop trying to replace the church as the source of help, drastically cut entitlement programs, and all the taxation that supports them, and leave that money in the pockets of the citizens who earned it b y the sweat of their brow. I'll make a prediction: if that happened, Americans, being the most generous people on earth, and CONSERVATIVES who always lead in every poll on charitable giving, would see that every worthy needy person survived. I also predict, that bums, leeches, welfare-cheats, recreational druggies (who render themselves unemployable by never passing an employment screening drug test) would be left to fend for themselves. After the initial shock, 99% of them would suddenly develop a work ethic. Hunger is a tremendous motivator. (I know, having BEEN there before.)

I'm sure i'm wasting my breath because you are probably all die-hard conservative republicans

You have confused two terms. Conservative ≠ Republican, and Republican REALLY ≠ Conservative. That's why wishy-washy semi-lib Republicans are finding themselves getting thrown out of office to be replaced by true conservatives.

Personally....I am registered as an independant but i'm sure you can smell my Liberal thoughts and ideas.. ..like blood in the water

Personally, I am not registered as ANYTHING, and I vote for both Democrat and Republican candidates based upon which most closely adheres to my understanding of Biblical values. My local State Representative is a Buddhist Democrat who stood against Same-sex marriage while some local Republicans voted for it. Party labels are so 90s and mean nothing any more.

i agree with everything you have said in this post pastor gary. i dont know that some can agree with it.

[Full Quiver]

amen PG

[dolfan]

Soooo in my version of the bible it says "something something something that you do for the least of these, you do for Me...something something"

What about the people who really CAN'T help themselves at this point? What about the single mother of multiple children who is single because her husband has a midlife crisis and leaves her??? Should she not be entitled to some sort of government assistance?? Or should we just let her and those children starve to death and go without medical care? If the children are small enough (Pre-schoolers, let's say) then the mother might be stuck in a spot where it won't pay her to work.

The system is broken, my friends.

by the way hi this is my first post

The single mother situation: been there, done that (or my mother did and I was one of those kids). Entitled? Nope. System broke? Yup. Government is never the answer. Never. Without fail, whenever the government steps in to finance living, government creates a culture of entitlement that overwhelms the will to work. Government does not assist; government enables failure and dependency.

The church of Jesus is the single and only legitimate authority for the distribution of wealth to the poor when it comes to Jesus' admonition of doing "unto the least of these." The government is an institution of the fallen with no hope of eternity, is destined for destruction, and is the least equipped and least competent to address any --- ANY --- matter of eternal importance. Feeding the hungry, caring for the fatherless, widows and prisoners and sick --- all of eternal importance.

[dawgs10]

Soooo in my version of the bible it says "something something something that you do for the least of these, you do for Me...something something"

What about the people who really CAN'T help themselves at this point? What about the single mother of multiple children who is single because her husband has a midlife crisis and leaves her??? Should she not be entitled to some sort of government assistance?? Or should we just let her and those children starve to death and go without medical care? If the children are small enough (Pre-schoolers, let's say) then the mother might be stuck in a spot where it won't pay her to work.

The system is broken, my friends.

by the way hi this is my first post

The single mother situation: been there, done that (or my mother did and I was one of those kids). Entitled? Nope. System broke? Yup. Government is never the answer. Never. Without fail, whenever the government steps in to finance living, government creates a culture of entitlement that overwhelms the will to work. Government does not assist; government enables failure and dependency.

The church of Jesus is the single and only legitimate authority for the distribution of wealth to the poor when it comes to Jesus' admonition of doing "unto the least of these." The government is an institution of the fallen with no hope of eternity, is destined for destruction, and is the least equipped and least competent to address any --- ANY --- matter of eternal importance. Feeding the hungry, caring for the fatherless, widows and prisoners and sick --- all of eternal importance.

i wonder how many people gave more to their local church than they paid in to taxes last year. if you did not, would you? if no, then how will the church pay to feed the hungry, care for the fatherless, widows and prisoners and sick. we have to remember that in the book of acts they gave all they had and shared everything. if your not willing to do that then how will the church do this. the fact is its a cop out. just say what you really mean. i dont want to pay taxes for anything other than maybe defense. because that makes you feel safer. or maybe to schools. but not to the schools that have a low GPA because they are not doing their job right. never mind the fact that they are more than likely poor schools with mostly minority students. so just say what you mean.

[thatonegirl]

[quote="one love"

None the less you are on the side that votes against all that the bible stands for. They are against christian movements and how can you support abortion is BEYOND me. Please show me that in the bible.

The new taxes will crush our economy. every nation that the government controls most of the economy and has socialist issues are the poorest of nations. we were the envy of the world prior to this take over and European envy...[/quote]

One love - please go back and re-read everything I posted. I never once said I was a democrat. I am actually an independant. I vote for whoever is best for the job. I have been known to vote AGAINST whoever is bad for the job. I never said that I am a staunch democrat. I stated my dislike for extremist far whatever-direction-the-conservative-or-republican-side-is

Extremist anything is horrible.

and I'd like you to please point me to where I said that I support abortion. I simply said that there are some Christians who want the laws of our Nation to be based on the Bible.

I used abortion as an *EXAMPLE*

so, again, please read what i said again

Pastor Gary - interesting points - I certainly think that the 3 generation folks on social services is ridiculous, but I think that it is wonderful that we have this system in place to help people who cannot help themselves. Sure...there are fraudulent people on the program.

I know of a town that actually was using 1 severely mentally disabled boy for almost everyone to draw SSDI on. They were busted when two "parents" forgot to cross check the doctors they were taking the kid to and they accidentally took the kid to the same doctor in the same week. Something like 2 days apart. The doctor turned them in and upon examination the ENTIRE town was using this poor boy. The state where that happened now requires a photo id for EVERYONE receiving SSDI benefits. EVEN infants.

There might be folks who are fraudulent on the system...but there are also folks who really desperately need the program. People who simply can't feed their babies. Some women can't breastfeed their infants due to lack of milk production (Yes. It happens) So do you propose that we should just let those tiny babies starve to death???? Or should the mother sit around and wait for someone to donate formula to a church? (that rarely happens) OR should that mother go to the WIC office and get assistance to feed her baby?

People lose their jobs every day and then have trouble finding a new one. In the current economy - especially. So if I lose my job due to no fault of my own and am unable to feed my small children then should i just let them starve to death?

Sorry - that attitude and outlook just seems kind of harsh and really sticks in my craw and I just can't swallow that it is what our Lord would want.

Dawgs: I doubt that most of the people railing against the social service programs can honestly say they gave more to the church than they paid in taxes. Not necessarily here...but in general.

and ya know....all of this is just peaceful talk...cause let's be honest here.....I know the social service programs aren't going away any time soon...and YOU know the social service programs aren't going away any time soon....so dislike them all you want

[Brian]

I am speechless. I seriously, seriously am struck dumb founded and don't even know what to say. (but that won't stop from from talkin')

Pastor Gary, MacUser, dolfan, TW, one love, myself, and I'm quite sure a few others have been going through this for quite a few days now. And I haven't heard one position NOT ONE that say's that they shouldn't pay taxes, or that people who really need help shouldn't get it, or that babies should starve to death because we don't want them to have formula. This is all just ridiculous and non existent in reality.

What HAS been said is that people should be fiscally responsible citizen's with a strong work ethic and have a healthy measure of self reliance and personal independence and build strong moral character, work hard and earn the things you have.

Those ideals are being scoffed at and replaced with basically saying "ah shut your baby killing racist selfish ways and give me your money you tight wad!

This is absolutely ridiculous!!

[dolfan]

Soooo in my version of the bible it says "something something something that you do for the least of these, you do for Me...something something"

What about the people who really CAN'T help themselves at this point? What about the single mother of multiple children who is single because her husband has a midlife crisis and leaves her??? Should she not be entitled to some sort of government assistance?? Or should we just let her and those children starve to death and go without medical care? If the children are small enough (Pre-schoolers, let's say) then the mother might be stuck in a spot where it won't pay her to work.

The system is broken, my friends.

by the way hi this is my first post

The single mother situation: been there, done that (or my mother did and I was one of those kids). Entitled? Nope. System broke? Yup. Government is never the answer. Never. Without fail, whenever the government steps in to finance living, government creates a culture of entitlement that overwhelms the will to work. Government does not assist; government enables failure and dependency.

The church of Jesus is the single and only legitimate authority for the distribution of wealth to the poor when it comes to Jesus' admonition of doing "unto the least of these." The government is an institution of the fallen with no hope of eternity, is destined for destruction, and is the least equipped and least competent to address any --- ANY --- matter of eternal importance. Feeding the hungry, caring for the fatherless, widows and prisoners and sick --- all of eternal importance.

i wonder how many people gave more to their local church than they paid in to taxes last year. if you did not, would you? if no, then how will the church pay to feed the hungry, care for the fatherless, widows and prisoners and sick. we have to remember that in the book of acts they gave all they had and shared everything. if your not willing to do that then how will the church do this. the fact is its a cop out. just say what you really mean. i dont want to pay taxes for anything other than maybe defense. because that makes you feel safer. or maybe to schools. but not to the schools that have a low GPA because they are not doing their job right. never mind the fact that they are more than likely poor schools with mostly minority students. so just say what you mean.

Dawgs, I agree with you that "in the book of Acts they gave all they had and shared everything. If you're not willing to do this how will the church do this." That's perfect. Spot on. I'll tell you what. Let's me and you organize a church. I'm not joking. You start in your house, I'll start in mine, but we'll do it "together". Both of us will tell everyone we know simply what Acts 2:42 said and what the followers of the Lord demonstrated in the NT church. Each of us and our folks in joint prayer will commit to taking every penny we have (and I realize that we all have debts and stuff we can't just walk away from, but we'll take whatever we have after our debts are paid and we'll instruct and teach not to incur new debt at all) and putting it into a common pool. From this pool, we'll all determine what our needs are --- which will have to be redefined over time as we learn Christ in a radically new and selfless way --- and we will take from the pool only what we need and we will take care of the families in our little gatherings. We will work to fund each other's needs. We will take on a Christlike character that takes it as an ordinance to be obeyed and a non-negotiable necessity of the faith that we esteem each other's needs greater than our own. We will institute, prayerfully and with the power of the Holy Spirit (which even this non-pentecostal fellow would expect to see poured out in ways that neither of us could ever have imagined) New Testament-informed checks on receiving funds without working and contributing, so that the truly needy would receive help and the truly able would be sustained while providing it.

You've said it can't be. I say it can be. I say it must be or we're all really just playing around.

I'm not copping out, Dawgs. I simply want out. I want out of this grid of deceit, this grid of illusion that purports to be stable, productive and peaceful which is really less than a house of cards built on thin air of digitally "existing" money and debt-as-growth-engine. I want the security of living in and for the church. I want all Christians to abandon the lie that is the order of our world and to unmercifully unplug from it and rebel against it. Let the dead bury their dead.

[MacUser]

so just say what you mean.

Ahh.. The key is again listening to what YOU are really saying my brother. ( Source: Reposted from previous angry rant thread sourced from his quotes. This is done to reestablish Dawg's belief system for any *ahem* new people that might have arrived late )

So... What we know about Dawgs personal vendetta briefly from this thread ( I'm sure I missed some.. so help me out - ok?) :

_ BIG #1 Americans can't survive with Govt. Checks
_ The Church doesn't have $$$ Money so it can't help anybody.

_ US Constitution is a Racist Document and/or Fosters Racism.
_ US Medical System is "Light Years" away from other countries
_ US Spends Money on WORLD DOMINATION
_ US Corporations are Unjust, Unfair, and Racists


On Grass Roots Tea Party Movement:

_ Tea Party doesn't give Free STUFF for votes. Thus it will fail.
_ Tea Party is basically Racists ( not all.. but most because no free stuff).
_ Tea Party speaks in "Code Words" of Racism.
_ Tea Party as a whole.. spits on people and calls them names.
_ Tea Party is heartless & throws entire families to the cold ( via tax stance - because able body people can't survive without Govt Checks ).

On Individual Stance:

_ He is a "compassionate conservative" ( Bush Term?) that translates he will not vote for an individual that has has real business experience. Example: Ebay, HP etc. Because he is looking for the individual that hands out FREE stuff for his vote.

_ Dawgs doesn't worry about the future. Takes care of today even at the literal expense $$$$ of the smallest and unborn. Remember he would rather connect his wagon to a Democrat that votes for late term abortion rather than to the evil Tea Party ( Liberty, Limited Govt, Economic Freedom - all secret "code words") which is about responsible government of the people living within it's means just as average ordinary working American's do.

See the Evil Tea Party Contract code words for yourself.
http://www.thecontract.org/the-contract-from-america/

Help me add to this ok?