Emotional Abuse and the Bible.

[dolfan]

I would submit that Jesus doesn't have any claim on the culture and does not want us to "reclaim" any portion of it. His claims are on us as a whole. That means that we are not even at liberty to create a culture apart from Him, let alone go out and find a reclamation project to present to Him. He has not sent His disciples into the world to create a culture of a particular type. The great commission has no such mandate.

It is Jesus Himself who will cause all things to be brought under His feet. When you read 1 Cor. 15, it is clear that everything that is put under Jesus' feet is not what it was before then. What He submits to the Father is what exists after all dominion, authority and power are destroyed. That will include, lock, stock and barrel, culture(s).

I respect Schaeffer and others who subscribe to this idea that Christians may improve the world by their Christian conduct and witness. There was a time when I agreed. I just don't now. I believe I was wrong. Without argument, there are many qualities of living that are more appealing with the presence of a greater Christian witness, but that is not why we're here. It is not only not enough, it is a whole missing of the mark, a hamartia to get downright theological about it.

C.S. Lewis wrote that Satan skillfully uses two false propositions with one of them having a greater appearance of truth to it so as to lure people into choosing one of them. For Satan, that's a win/win. For us who are in Christ, it is a loss either way. A pagan world or unbelieving world versus a world made better by Christian conduct and witness are both Satan's lair. Jesus did not come to save this. He came to destroy it and set in order an entire new order of things that He insists that we conform to now and promises us that He will burn away the veneer of the corrupted order as it now presents itself to us. Faith is, at least in part if not altogether, trusting Christ to do exactly and just that, for that is the whole of His plan (isn't it?).

I know that John 3:17 says that Jesus did not come into the world to condemn it but to save it. That means simply that Jesus entered the world and brought the Light of God to the darkness of men. He said, also that they were condemned already who did not believe Him (no need for Him to condemn them when they --- and their culture --- were already condemned). The "saving" of the world is the redemption of the creation according to the promise of God. God's creation will not be destroyed, but the fallen order of things will be.

That's extensive. The order of things. Every way in which we perceive reality is through "the order of things". There is only one order that reveals to us Truth, and that is the one, single Order of Truth that is revealed in the person of Jesus. All the rest is ..... well, culture. And, culture is fallen, fallen. It is tilting at windmills to "reclaim" it.

[MacUser]

did Jesus operate His Ministry out of performance or paternity?

Not sure what you mean here. So my question would be, what do you operate your ministry out of?

The things I could talk to you about could go on for hours. So I'll try to be brief and break this up into two posts.

"Do we just ask Jesus into our heart and then turn a blind eye to the wrong that surrounds us? It seems like that is what your saying?"

My question was responding to your above question to get to a deeper understanding of this answer. Thanks for allowing it. I simply operate my ministry like Jesus did. Showing Love, Revealing the Father and Living as a Son. Let me explain..

Your social wrongs question about turning a blind eye is key to my response. I point back to Jesus again and how he reacted to these situations and how he lived his life. You can learn so much from this. It's beautiful and revealing.

We can agree that Jesus essentially knew who he was at age 12 ( or close ) when he was lost from his parents and was found in the temple. So Jesus from the age of essentially 12 to 30 knew He was the Savior of the world. He knew HE was the Son of God. Yet He probably worked comfortably ( without any pressure ) at his earthly fathers shop building carpenter related items. 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30. Possibly 19 YEARS +.. and was recorded as doing absolutely nothing. Wow.

So equal that to your question. Did Jesus turn a blind eye to social wrongs during that time? Or was this not his purpose to correct social wrongs?

Simply imagine a fiery Pentecostal preach meeting a 19 year old Jesus and the possible dialog that would result.

Preacher: "Are you NOT the Savior of the World?"
Jesus: "Yep"

Preacher: "Are you NOT the Lamb of God?"
Jesus: "yep"

Preacher: "How many people have you witness and saved today?"
Jesus: "none?"

Preacher: "How many people have you healed today?"
Jesus: "none?"

Preacher: "How many demons have you cast out?"
Jesus: "none..."

Preacher: "Well.. YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME as this world goes to HELL... Don't you have a PASSION FOR SOULS???"


My point is that Jesus didn't come to correct Social Wrongs.. he came to reveal the Father, show his Father's GOODNESS and restore relationship..


Because if you remember when Jesus finally started His Ministry and was Baptized by John... the voice form Heaven was.." This is MY SON.. in whom I am WELL PLEASED". Awesome!!!

The Father was absolutely pleased with Jesus and the fact that he did absolutely nothing during that timeframe. He was living as a SON and not out of performance.

Can we all say the same?
( more later )

[MacUser]

What is Jesus' Glory?

Glory was always a physical manifestation of God's miraculous presence. When Jesus turned the water into wine, the Bible says His glory was revealed. When the glory of God filled the temple, it was in the form of smoke.

Physical Manifestation or Specific Revelation?

This is a huge, huge, huge revelation and I'm just not sure I can do it justice in this small post. It will change your life. So I will humbly attempt to plant this awareness seed today with this post.

Habakkuk 2:14:

King James Bible
For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

New Living Translation
For as the waters fill the sea, the earth will be filled with an awareness of the glory of the LORD.

New International Version
For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.


So the entire earth will at some point be made aware/knowledge of the GLORY of God! As Isaiah 6:3 states: "... the whole earth is full of his glory." So the earth is ALREADY FULL of HIS GLORY... it just needs revealing. So awesome!

So what is the GLORY of GOD? Smoke? Power? Fire from Heaven?

I wouldn't say God gave it to Jesus. Jesus being equal with the Father already had it.

Really? Read John 17:22.
I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one.

So Jesus states clearly that God gave Him HIS GLORY and that Jesus FREELY gives it to us. So We possess as Christians without any special requirements the Glory of God. Amazing!! Beautiful.

Now again to Understand the Glory of Jesus ( because God gave it to Him ).. we have to understand what is the GLORY of GOD?

Are you READY?

Exodus 33:18,19 - Moses request to see God's GLORY..

18 Then Moses said, "Now show me your glory."
19 And the LORD said, "I will cause all my GOODNESS to pass in front of you, and I will proclaim my name, the LORD, in your presence. I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

King David was a man after God's own heart. Why? Because He revealed God's Goodness with David's New Order Tabernacle. David demonstrated that the Lord's desired to bless "all the nations of the earth" and more than just Jews as seen with Obededom.

1 Chronicles 16:34 (KJV)
34. O give thanks unto the LORD; for he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.

David penned this amazing song that will again be sang according to Jeremiah 33:11. Amazing!!!



When the Glory filled the temple this is what the Priests said as they fell out.

2 Chronicles 5:13,14 NIV
13. The trumpeters and singers joined in unison, as with one voice, to give praise and thanks to the LORD. Accompanied by trumpets, cymbals and other instruments, they raised their voices in praise to the LORD and sang: "He is good; his love endures forever." Then the temple of the LORD was filled with a cloud,
14. and the priests could not perform their service because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the temple of God


So with these brief scriptures.. it's shows that God's Glory is HIS GOODNESS and that this WILL BE REVEALED according to Habakkuk 2:14.

Now it gets even better.. let's forward to Jesus!! This is so revealing of HIS PURPOSE...

Hebrews 1:3

King James Bible
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

New International Version
The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

New Living Translation
The Son radiates God's own glory and expresses the very character of God, and he sustains everything by the mighty power of his command. When he had cleansed us from our sins, he sat down in the place of honor at the right hand of the majestic God in heaven.


Let's see what Jesus did with it..
Acts 10:38 (New International Version)

38. how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

And what was most revealing on Jesus' GOODNESS as it related to the first wine miracle. This basically didn't heal, didn't save, didn't give a life altering event here... Jesus simply took care of a LACK that this family had with abundance and the best. WOW!!!

John 2:11
11This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed in Cana of Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.


So I could go on and on about the Goodness of God and how JESUS came to REVEAL that over and over. The Gospel literally MEANS... the GOOD NEWS!!!!

We need to fully understand WHOM WE ARE and what it is that we have. If not we will act blinded as Paul calls the Gospel veiled in 2 Corinthians 4:3.

So I pray today my revealing text will not go wasted and will plant a seed deep in you that will grow. As it does I will rest comfortably in this fact as so the kingdom of God does.

Mark 4:26,27
He also said, "This is what the kingdom of God is like. A man scatters seed on the ground.
Night and day, whether he sleeps or gets up, the seed sprouts and grows, though he does not know how.

[stevenson]

Macuser, I wish we were in a Bible Study together. I could go on and on with this. I love respectfully debating scripture with someone who is knowlegable and not easily offended. You dear sir, are a scholar and a gentleman. And now I have a new found level of respect for you.

[MacUser]

Macuser, I wish we were in a Bible Study together. I could go on and on with this. I love respectfully debating scripture with someone who is knowlegable and not easily offended. You dear sir, are a scholar and a gentleman. And now I have a new found level of respect for you.

Thanks but I digress. I'm just a clay pot filled with His Goodness that desires to share revelation. Behold the LAMB! It's all about Him.


One more revealing instance..

John 11:38-44
38.Then Jesus, deeply moved again, came to the tomb. It was a cave, and a stone lay against it. 39. Jesus said, "Take away the stone." Martha, the sister of the dead man, said to him, "Lord, by this time there will be an odor, for he has been dead four days." 40. Jesus said to her, "Did I not tell you that if you believed you would see the glory of God?"


Wow... oh wow.. now comes this amazing revelation also..


41. So they took away the stone. And Jesus lifted up his eyes and said, "Father, I thank you that you have heard me. 42. I knew that you always hear me, but I said this on account of the people standing around, that they may believe that you sent me." 43. When he had said these things, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lazarus, come out." 44. The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, "Unbind him, and let him go."

Wow.... let this sink in and digest it.

The Glory of God has just been shown brightly from Jesus! His AMAZING GOODNESS was Revealed by bringing this dead man back to life. Yet this last part is totally critical to our modern ministries... as a revived deadman - now totally ALIVE..... Yet.... Lazarus was still BOUND in stinky grave clothes and unable to walk or function as a completely FREE ALIVE man. He looked like possibly a mummy.. unable to see clearly, voice muffled, unable to stretch his legs or move his hands freely about.

That is what I propose all modern ministry been aimed at.. removing the grave clothes on our fellow brothers and sisters. Teaching them whom they are in Christ so they are not manipulated but grounded in truth.

Behold the Lamb. It's all about Him.

[dalebert]

Chris...its amazing how the word of God is soooo simple YET sooo powerful....awesome revelation..

Dale

[MacUser]

Chris...its amazing how the word of God is soooo simple YET sooo powerful....awesome revelation..

Dale

Absolutely. Imagine all the sermons you have heard and now forgotten because it focused on you.

Now to the contrary... You will NEVER forget the Goodness of the Father that Jesus came to reveal and restore us to. Behold the Lamb!

Now it's no need to withhold yourself from Him any longer. He's THAT good.

[stevenson]

Great broadcast on our subject matter:
http://lineoffireradio.askdrbrown.org/2010/08/05/are-we-called-to-change-the-culture/

[MacUser]

Great broadcast on our subject matter:
http://lineoffireradio.askdrbrown.org/2010/08/05/are-we-called-to-change-the-culture/

Interesting Link.
Btw.. expensive MP3 CD! Wow..

2009 School of Cultural Engagement [MP3 CD]
Original Price: $125.00
40% Sale: $75.00

[Kevin]

There is a positive side to this post. When I read it, I had some serious soul searching to do. I called Kalei over to read it as well. I told her that if she felt I had in any way wronged her as the post described for her to just tell me and we would talk to somebody.

Now, due to problems that arose in my previous marriage, I felt it was only fair to open this door to her. I don't know what you would call the reactions I had in my previous marriage if you knew the whole story, but with the few details that I've given most would label me an abuser. I go with that. I'd rather think of myself that way and assume the worst so that I always remember to keep checking me.

It's too easy to be a detriment to your own family and lose them when they're really good to you and for you. It's just as easy to keep that magnifying glass handy to examine your motives, make sure you're showing the love you should, and generally being the man (or husband or father) that you should be. Same could go for women.

I don't know the back-story here, and I don't really care to. God can put a message out there for someone using any tool. That message can be for anyone. He's so smart it usually isn't the intended victim if this was some kind of under-handed deal.

Either way, it's something to think about. Something that made me think at least. Peace.