tithing

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dawgs10
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Postby dawgs10 » October 8th, 2010, 6:01 am

MacUser wrote:
dolfan wrote:I don't know about curses. I'm of a mind that there is now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus


Absolutely.. in Christ. If you are keeping the Law you are not. Any part of it... you must keep it all. I didn't say it... Paul did.

Remember Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.



Beautiful Stuff Here:
So Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Galatians 5:1


either its good and or right as Jesus said or not. i will go with Jesus on this one.

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scooter
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If you read Hebrews 7

Postby scooter » October 8th, 2010, 7:51 am

Hebrews 7 with a proper reading uses tithes as an example of things that transcend the Law as they knew it. :shock:

I know that we are not saved by "works" as they have come to be known.

I'm not saying that people who don't tithe are going to hell.

Can a Christian be an ignorant steward of his finances toward God and still be saved? In my estimation yes.

Might they suffer from serious financial issues because of disregarding promises and results from not being faithful?

3:11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith the LORD of hosts.

You cannot simply say that this curse is the curse of "death" or ultimate penalty for sin, such as what Jesus became for us to find everlasting life.

This curse seemed to be specific about "finances".

If the NT says give and it shall be given, what happens to the individual that doesn't give?? Does the blessings alotted to the faithful transcend ones actions and they too are blessed??

Simply no.

I'm not talking about salvation, I'm talking about financial faithfulness and a Biblical model established before the Law in such a way that it was included in the law but never said of "it's now invalid".

It is a wonderful Biblical model of continual faithfulness in one's finances.

If one is not finacially faithful there are repercussions.
What we need here is a good revival! lol

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Postby MacUser » October 8th, 2010, 11:12 am

Indeed I did read Hebrews 7.. Specifically verse 18, 19 which seals it.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness 19(for(O) the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.

Remember. Perfect love casts out all fear...
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Chris -

... Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world!
John 1:29

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scooter
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Postby scooter » October 8th, 2010, 11:36 am

MacUser wrote:Indeed I did read Hebrews 7.. Specifically verse 18, 19 which seals it.

Hebrews 7:18-19
18For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness 19(for(O) the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.

Remember. Perfect love casts out all fear...
On my iPhone.. More later


Response: Seals it? Seals that the Levitical priesthood and the law was weak, sure. Seals it that tithing was not practiced on a higher authority? Read it again. 8) Really.
What we need here is a good revival! lol

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Postby MacUser » October 9th, 2010, 5:07 am

Seriously. It was Set Aside. I didnt make it up. Go back and read all in context. I pray revelation on you.

Do we really believe the bridegroom will withold love from the bride based this? Is that Love or fear? Perfect love cast away all fear.

If people want a closer applicable NC example Try the widow that gave all.

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Chris -



... Behold, the Lamb of God, that taketh away the sin of the world!

John 1:29

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Postby Full Quiver » October 9th, 2010, 7:31 pm

I believe that one's gift pleases God more than anyone's tithe based on Malachi 3 ever could.
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Postby dolfan » October 10th, 2010, 1:33 pm

A lady from Los Angeles in a U-Haul happened into our store yesterday. Actually, she had rented the U-Haul in Jackson, TN and was going to Somerville, GA. She'd missed a turn and wound up in Moulton, AL (a fate that befalls more than her, I assure you :lol: ). A regular customer of ours gave her directions of how to get her back to where she got off-track. I waited for him to finish, and then told her how to get to where she could get back on track quicker and without back-tracking. She was kind of slow of understanding, directionally-impaired if you will. But, I wrote down a list of landmarks -- all on the right hand side of the road -- that she would encounter to let her know she was going as directed.

I don't know how she made out. But, when she left, she was smiling.

Fact is, either set of directions would've gotten her there. Both of her helpers had given her accurate directions to get her back on her intended path. We had a difference of opinion on which way was better, taking into account her (ahem) inability to follow directions. She followed my advice, though, given the way she was heading when she left. I only hope the poor gal got there without too much more deviation since she was being really mileage-conscious with her U-Haul.

Whether you view tithing as a NT requirement, as an OT carryover that is somehow endorsed as a rule of practice for Christians in the church, or as a benchmark for giving cheerfully while taking the OT revelation of God into account in light of the NT teaching on giving all, or some other seriously studied, prayerfully considered and heartfelt-desire-to-be-obedient way of breaking this issue down into how-to-live reality, there is little doubt that the believer will have no choice but to confront his or her lordship over one's own resources and the dilemma of whether and how to submit it to the Lordship of Jesus Christ. The response to that dilemma is, in my own opinion, a telling barometer of that person's view of Jesus, who had "equality with God" but considered it nothing to be grasped, and who, being found in the form of a man, became obedient and submitted himself to death on the cross. In other words, His model is that everything is unto God. There are many, many forms and functions of the body of Christ in the world. Churches now take many and varied structures that we don't even consider here in our corner of it. Home churches, clandestine meetings shepherded by every single participant, etc. It is impossible, in my opinion, to be dogmatic about the how-to on giving, and equally unwise to make blanket judgments about the how-much. I wonder whether any of us could pass muster under Paul's example of giving all, and of following Him as he followed Christ.
Human government bears the same relation to hell as the church bears to heaven. (David Lipscomb, On Civil Government, 72).

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Postby Full Quiver » October 10th, 2010, 2:47 pm

I'd also like to point out that Jesus told the apostles that workers/ministers were worthy of being paid. Didn't show a tithing system but in fact Jesus said if you seek first the kingdom of God then the Father would gladly supply every need. Sounds like a better financial system to me.
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Postby dawgs10 » October 11th, 2010, 2:48 am

cultrual relativism can not dictate the Word of God. the issue i see with those that preach the wide open grace message is many try to declare freedom from the Bible and its teachings. Jesus said a tenth of your income is good. so we should follow that. if you feel like you should give 90% thats great but its not a tithe in which Jesus was referring when he said what you are doing is good but with the wrong intentions.

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Postby lance82 » October 11th, 2010, 6:42 am

To the pro-tithers here, do you tithe on everything? For example... gifts, job perks(insurance paid by your employer, free gas and maintenace for the company car and the cost of using it for "free"), educational scholarships, etc...
I am curious as the call to tithe is on your increase, not just your paycheck.

dawgs10
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Postby dawgs10 » October 11th, 2010, 7:22 am

yes.

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Postby lance82 » October 11th, 2010, 8:01 am

I am curious how a parent making barely poverty level income could be expected to tithe income for a child's 4 year scholarship of $100,000+ dollars(10,000+ dollars in tithes). Or how a single mother living on welfare, food stamps, and government healthcare could possibly tithe on those food stamp, healthcare, and food bank dollars? How bout the 100,000 tithe from the parents who just had their million dollar debt to the hospital written off after losing their baby to cancer? How can WE place this type of weight around the necks of HIS little ones and expect to keep them in fellowship? Haven't they already been "cursed" enough?
Jesus called them to come "for MY yoke is easy and my burden light".
It sounds to me like OUR yoke is not so easy or light!!

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Postby scooter » October 11th, 2010, 8:24 am

lance82 wrote:I am curious how a parent making barely poverty level income could be expected to tithe income for a child's 4 year scholarship of $100,000+ dollars(10,000+ dollars in tithes). Or how a single mother living on welfare, food stamps, and government healthcare could possibly tithe on those food stamp, healthcare, and food bank dollars? How bout the 100,000 tithe from the parents who just had their million dollar debt to the hospital written off after losing their baby to cancer? How can WE place this type of weight around the necks of HIS little ones and expect to keep them in fellowship? Haven't they already been "cursed" enough?
Jesus called them to come "for MY yoke is easy and my burden light".
It sounds to me like OUR yoke is not so easy or light!!


Response: I suppose if you looked at it through such a perverted prism, tithing would be a heavy yoke.

I like this, "let's imagine a way of tithing in which it would be basically impossible to perform, generate sympathy for the victim, and make God look like an idiot for ever suggesting that anyone could possibly tithe", way of pitching an honest discussion on the subject. :lol:
What we need here is a good revival! lol

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Postby paul » October 11th, 2010, 8:43 am

lance82 wrote:To the pro-tithers here, do you tithe on everything? For example... gifts, job perks(insurance paid by your employer, free gas and maintenace for the company car and the cost of using it for "free"), educational scholarships, etc...
I am curious as the call to tithe is on your increase, not just your paycheck.


Yes.....I learned a long time ago that God can do more with my 90% than I could ever do with the 100%

My wife and I give our tithe and our offering above the tithe. We average right at 15% yearly.
You cannot effectively love and minister to others when you are obsessed with protecting
and preserving yourself.

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Postby scooter » October 11th, 2010, 8:47 am

paul wrote:
lance82 wrote:To the pro-tithers here, do you tithe on everything? For example... gifts, job perks(insurance paid by your employer, free gas and maintenace for the company car and the cost of using it for "free"), educational scholarships, etc...
I am curious as the call to tithe is on your increase, not just your paycheck.


Yes.....I learned a long time ago that God can do more with my 90% than I could ever do with the 100%

My wife and I give our tithe and our offering above the tithe. We average right at 15% yearly.


Response: Just for kicks I'd love to see the year end totals of chariable giving of a basic tither verses a basic gracer.
What we need here is a good revival! lol


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