You see....this is the type of stuff that drives me nuts

[Gerald]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDYyym5tD20


I first heard the name Jesse Duplantis from COGOP folk.

I last heard Jesse Duplantis mentioned in a COGOP last month.

As a minister (for those here who ARE ministers):
1) WHat do you think of this preaching?
2) Do you think it is Biblical?
3) IF the answer to 2 is "no" will you warn anyone you find who follows this man?
4) Should the COGOP Presbytery issue a stement to address such teaching?

[Full Quiver]

I love his accent but hate how he is always trying to corner the market on new revelation. He is ignorant, deceived, and yes a heretic. Makes a good horse sound though.

For what it is worth, CoGoP should denounce him and forbid him in their churches.

[one love]

I suppose God no longer knows the beginning from the end.... He acts as if God is ignorant , I fear for people that preach such false doctrines.
7 by7 clean beast what verse is that ? Did I mid a verse? Seriously

What part is cogop having with him etc and why? I know my cogop friends don't buy into such garbage.

I am continually amazed at those that make a mockery out of the house of God!

Gerald good to see ya on here! It has been a long time for me to.

[dolfan]

It may be the only time it ever happened, but this made onto TBN once.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxlhEmZ- ... re=related

This is the message that I run to now -- every single day. I was as mad as fire about the heretics in the world, but I am coming to believe that debating the heresies is useless. This message (and if I could draw a line here pointing back up to that link, I would) is the one that must be stated time and time again and if people tire of hearing it, say it time and time again again because it is the only message there is. The Word of God will only persuade people in the power of the Holy Spirit. Carnal people -- like the kind you are upset about, Gerald -- will never be convinced by the simple truth. You are talking about people who need to be converted by the power of the Gospel, not persuaded by the power of a strong apologetic argument.

Let me state it another way. People are motivated by the "things of the world" -- the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, pride of life -- and the only way to break free from that is the Holy Spirit piercing their hearts with the Word of God and laying open their justifications and reasons for sin, and showing them openly why they are depraved and doomed. The freedom comes when they run and with all abandon throw themselves at Jesus' crucified and resurrected feet and obtain mercy, when the truth of their depravity so horrifies them that they will flee to Christ. We never, ever outgrow that horror, and if we do, we will find ourselves in all manner of error. I would submit to you that when that happens -- and it does -- the only message is THAT ONE (line drawn to the link) that Paul Washer talks about.

As for keeping score of the number of WOF people vs. the number of true gospel preachers in the world or in any denominational group, seems like that is a useless stat to spend so much energy in keeping up with it. Every local church has a duty to protect the integrity of the teaching that happens within the fellowship. Just do it. I'm far more afraid of the half-hearted, watered down stuff that even I once embraced than I am of guys like Duplantis. Nevertheless, error is error. The message to all of them is, seems to me, the same one.

Good to see you back on here, by the way.

[Full Quiver]

Genesis 7:1 And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation. 2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.

That part is not debatable Kevin.

Your point about knowing the end from the beginning is what I shared with someone last night while discussing this thread. So what if Adam named the animals, God already knew what he would name them. God however was not at a loss for what the animal was as I believe He created them with intention and not by accident.

[one love]

Full quiver
I had found that after I posted this thank you for posting the verse though! I was asking sincerely because I did recelect that for some reason. Appreciate it.
Hope you and the family are doing well bro.

[Gerald]

Dolfan,

There is indeed a truth that those who want their ears scratched will find preachers teaching things to get a good scratching and thereby bring condemnation upon themselves.

This is the reasoning Paul Washer uses in his condemnation of the WOF people.

But there are several aspects that are not considered in this reasoning the chief being that there are those...perhaps the young or the young in Christ who simply are led to believe that "this is how a true Christian is".

I personally had such an experience when WOF dominated the folk at the local COGOP when I was young.

BECAUSE I believed this is what true Christianity is, I did not examine it critically.

COGOP leadership must be called to repentance in that they do NOT follow Biblical example in WARNING the flock.

Where is the "Foolish Galations!" alarm!?

Where are the exhortations to: "...avoid irreverent babble, for it will lead people into more and more ungodliness, and their talk will spread like gangrene."

They aren't there.

When will the COGOP leadership take their booger stained finger away from the propeller on their beanies to ISSUE a warning or statement?

[dolfan]

I don't know, Gerald. You know, maybe I'm more removed from the issue than I, perhaps, ought to be. What I mean is this. Some time ago I remember Scooter and I had a discussion about eternal security along these lines. He said that he knew of churches that were teaching the doctrine in such a way as to lead people down a primrose path of "I prayed a prayer and now I've punched my Jesus card and can do whatever I please...once saved, always saved." My personal experience was (and still is, although I note some exceptions that I've seen, too) that genuine Christian teaching from all but your "hard shell Baptist" types might acknowledge eternal security or OSAS, but also state that the one who didn't endure was never saved at all and were false converts.

Now, I bring that up as an example of my experience vs. Scooter's. He was, and I'd suspect still is, much more suspicious of that teaching (to put it kindly) than I would be.

Same goes for this WOF stuff. Since we have returned to pentecostal worship and joined a COG congregation, I can tell you that the TBN stuff gets roundly rejected from our pastor's pulpit. And, they don't get any more old-school pentecostal than my pastor, who is my age (44). The issues of WOF simply have not appeared on any radar in my local church. I am more involved now than I have been in several years in a local church. Maybe I'm just fortunate on that score on this issue. I don't know what's going on in local COGOP churches or even other COG churches for that matter. (I couldn't name you 1 pastor of another local COG church, and there are a bunch right here where we live. I'm just not connected any wider than our local church, which is fine with me.)

So, here's what this leads to. Is WOF a continuing problem in COGOP? I mean, assuming it has been in the past, that is -- does it continue to be? Where? Under whose local leadership? I think those questions matter, personally. What is it that you personally see now?

[Gerald]

So, here's what this leads to. Is WOF a continuing problem in COGOP? I mean, assuming it has been in the past, that is -- does it continue to be? Where? Under whose local leadership? I think those questions matter, personally. What is it that you personally see now?

When the assistant Pastor and wife are fans of Joyce Meyer, is that a matter of concern?

When TD Jakes books replaces the Bible for Bible study, is that a matter of concern?

When the worship leader "SPEAKS" blessings upon the congregants, is that a matter of concern?

When COGOP evangelsits praise Joel Osteen as something to be like, is that a matter of concern?

When the COGOP touts and organizes events with BIG NAME WOF ministries, is that a matter of concern?

If these ARE matters of concern, what avenue would you choose to address them?

[darylscook]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDYyym5tD20


I first heard the name Jesse Duplantis from COGOP folk.

I last heard Jesse Duplantis mentioned in a COGOP last month.

As a minister (for those here who ARE ministers):
1) WHat do you think of this preaching?
2) Do you think it is Biblical?
3) IF the answer to 2 is "no" will you warn anyone you find who follows this man?
4) Should the COGOP Presbytery issue a stement to address such teaching?

1. He is a good comedian!
2. He is better to listen to for laughs that a dirty mouth comedian, but I would consider everything he said for entertainment purposes only and not assume that anything of spiritual value is there.
3. Yes, I would warn them if they asked me or if I heard them praising him.
4. IDK; There is so much Good, OK, Bad, Horrible junk out there, I don't think I want the CoGoP presbytery telling me who to listen too and not to listen too.

Pastor Daryl

[Gerald]

1. He is a good comedian!
2. He is better to listen to for laughs that a dirty mouth comedian, but I would consider everything he said for entertainment purposes only and not assume that anything of spiritual value is there.
3. Yes, I would warn them if they asked me or if I heard them praising him.
4. IDK; There is so much Good, OK, Bad, Horrible junk out there, I don't think I want the CoGoP presbytery telling me who to listen too and not to listen too.

Pastor Daryl

I thank you for your response and am glad that you are thinking like me on this to a certain extent (does that scare you?)

But the answer to number four makes me scratch my head.

Does it not basicly say: There's a lot of crap out there but dont warn me not to listen to it!!!

Is not leadership supposed to LEAD?

[darylscook]

1. He is a good comedian!
2. He is better to listen to for laughs that a dirty mouth comedian, but I would consider everything he said for entertainment purposes only and not assume that anything of spiritual value is there.
3. Yes, I would warn them if they asked me or if I heard them praising him.
4. IDK; There is so much Good, OK, Bad, Horrible junk out there, I don't think I want the CoGoP presbytery telling me who to listen too and not to listen too.

Pastor Daryl

I thank you for your response and am glad that you are thinking like me on this to a certain extent (does that scare you?)

But the answer to number four makes me scratch my head.

Does it not basicly say: There's a lot of crap out there but dont warn me not to listen to it!!!

Is not leadership supposed to LEAD?

I wouldn't really have a problem if the CoGoP came out and addressed a certain doctrine if it was very prevalent and awful. But, should they come out and say "Oh, BTW God DID know who the animals were when he created them before he brought them to Adam to name them what God created them. "

I see what you are saying though.... I would just we rather we address what we need to at the Assembly and them not do any decision making in between to be honest. See in the COGOP, it is supposed to be that the we at General Assembly under the direction of the Holy Ghost settle differing interpretations. I think we can just do fine ourselves as Pastors in between.

[Gerald]

I think we can just do fine ourselves as Pastors in between.

Counting those who pack up members in the van and go see Todd Bently or Benny HInn???

[PastorDaniel]

Personally...I don't listen to any of the TV preachers...and I advise from the pulpit that those under the sound of my voice take caution when doing so...but I can't say that I would want HQ issuing blanket statements...Overall, that type of leadership has caused more harm than good...I think this is the responsibility of each local Church and Christian...

[Full Quiver]

If HQ is responsible for appointing pastors then yes they should lay down the law.

If local churches select their own pastors then the those that make the selection should help guard.

Ultimately it lies on the shoulders of the shepherd. Is the pastor a shepherd or a hireling?