Questions Regarding Israel

[Gerald]

Why, During Jesus times, Jews who intermarried with foreigners for a couple hundred years where called Dogs (The Samaritans)

BUt people who Call themselves Jews TODAY who have interbred with MULTIPLE european races for 2000 years are considered TRUE Jews?


I submit: It is ONLY your belief that make it so. Would the Jews of Jesus time consider them DOGS?

[Poimen]

It's an interesting question. Should Timothy and Titus have any bearing on this question?

[Gerald]

It's an interesting question. Should Timothy and Titus have any bearing on this question?

How?

[Poimen]

Wasn't one or both a Jew, though the offspring of Jew and Gentile union, who had yet to be circumcised? Maybe not. Either way ...

Isn't circumcision the means whereby one is and was counted a part of the covenant community, the nation, be he born or convert? Wouldn't a circumcised child under Mosaic and rabbinic custom be a Jew even if having European ancestry as well?

[Gerald]

Isn't circumcision the means whereby one is and was counted a part of the covenant community, the nation, be he born or convert? Wouldn't a circumcised child under Mosaic and rabbinic custom be a Jew even if having European ancestry as well?

Well how should I answer this? Should I say yes circumcision is the means by which a true Jew is determined?

BUt then would that not contradict Galations 5 in which it is said In Jesus circumcision availeth nothing?

If you say but OUTSIDE of Jesus it availeth true Jewishness, and therefore a blessing of God.....you MUST come to the REALIZATION that there are TWO PATHS to GOD making JESUS a liar when he Said "NO MAN, cometh to the father BUT BY ME."

[Poimen]

What? I wasn't talking about salvation in any shape, form, or fashion. And I didn't understand the question to be addressing such either. I was simply discussing how Jews with European ancestral can still truly be Jews. If there is some other motive for the question it was lost on me.

[Gerald]

What? I wasn't talking about salvation in any shape, form, or fashion. And I didn't understand the question to be addressing such either. I was simply discussing how Jews with European ancestral can still truly be Jews. If there is some other motive for the question it was lost on me.

You were talking about how to determine a TRUE JEW, which you consider Gods CHosen people.

You can not seperate a CHOSEN PEOPLE from their RELATIONSHIP with GOD.

RELATIONSHIP with GOD is called Salvation, is it not?

WITHOUT SALVATION there is no relationship.

UNLESSS you believe you can come to the father OUTSIDE of Christ.

Or that the origin of the COVENANT has a lasting effect outside of the FULFILLMENT of the Covenant, which is Christ,

[Poimen]

I took true Jew to mean a non mixed bloodline versus a mixed one. In that light I affirm circumcision determines whether such a one can in fact claims their Jewishness as true or valid, at least to other Jews.

That's all I was getting at. The rest of it, while interesting, seems a bit highly charged, and I am just waiting to see where you are going and how things will play out. But I think the questions posed in other threads a more fitting place to discuss that based on the op question given here.

So, I reckon I don't have anything more to add to this thread. Sorry.

[Full Quiver]

I think they were called dogs because the "elitists" termed them that.

The Samaritans worshiped the Lord also and were only dogs to those that felt they were above them. Sure they intermarried and that wasn't in line with the law BUT do generations far beyond the transgression have to suffer for the sins of their grandparents and forefathers?

In society yes, but I say in Christ NO. Jesus Himself noted that the Jews called the Samaritans dogs (He showed no such disrespect in spirit) BUT He willingly ministered to the Samaritans and they believed.