As many of you may remember I have been on a decade long crusade against Word of Faith doctrine, which is, without a doubt, one of the most demonic doctrines Christianity (And particularly Pentecostals) have embraced and or flirted with.
I don't care how sainted a Man of God you consider yourself to be, if you preach that stuff you are demonicly deluded.
Many have assured me that the COGOP does not engage in WOF doctrine and that it is really a non-issue. I shouldn't worry. I should shut up.
A strange thing happened then, a few weeks ago. A local COGOP has a public access program.....and for two weeks they ran a message by the presiding Overseer of the state preaching.
And what was he preaching? That "we" have gone too far in the "Speaking things" teaching. YOu know, the WOF doctrine that you speak things into existence and that YOUR PERSONAL tounge has creative power.
MY question is: IF WOF is not a COGOP doctrine, and COGOP does not embrace it, how did we ever get it to go too far with it?
I will give accolades that said state overseer has sense enough to realize "we've" gone too far, but wonder where he (and others) were in the first place when allowing the doctrine to creep in.
The Gerald Rant on Word OF Faith
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AtlantaBishop
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Are you COGOP?
Gerald, Are you COGOP and if so why and if not why not?
I don't understand your rant against the WOF when those of us that were raised COGOP (and are now in our 50's & 60's) were taught unbiblical doctrine from birth!
We were taught - "Entire Sanctification". We were taught that when we are Sanctified the adamic nature is eradicated and we no longer had the propensity to sin. We made mistakes, fell, messed up, had faults and failures - but God knows we did not call it SIN because WE HAD BEEN SANCTIFIED and we did not have a sin nature any longer! We were taught that the BLOOD was applied at Sanctification. I heard Brother Billy Murray teach that out of his book on the subject at Tomlinson College in 1975.
We were taught that the "Elder's" COG split off from us and stole money, property, buildings and members for many years. There was a LONG running feud between the two groups until just the past decade.
We were taught that WE were the Exclusive CHURCH OF GOD and that there would be an INFLOW into the COGOP just before the RAPTURE and that ONLY COGOP members would go in the Rapture and we would eat at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb for 7 years and be served by those that died while saved, but not joining the COGOP.
We were taught that those that wore jewelry of any kind were not saved.
We were taught that those that divorced and remarried were not saved but were in adultery. We were taught strange and deceptive definitions of adultery and fornication. These definitions came from AJT and the hierarchy.
We were taught against going to ball games, fairs, carnivals, skating rinks, theaters, bowling alleys, pool halls, swimming pools and places were people "mix bathed" and places of worldly amusement.
We were taught that AJT climbed Burger Mt in Cherokee County, NC and God revealed to him the last days CHURCH OF GOD and that he came down off the mountain and asked if this church was the Last Day's Church of God and was told it was and he asked to join it by covenant and was the first member, first Pastor, First General Overseer among many other firsts!
I have always and continue to have great regard for Bishop Tomlinson and his Vision and I am thankful for the good and Biblical Doctrines and Principals I learned from a baby until I resigned my credentials in the COGOP in 1977. I have high regard for many that stayed with it and tried to turn it and make it more mainstream and to forsake the Exclusive Doctrine.
I think it is horrible and deceitful that TCOG has been allowed to steal the identity, flag (with a small revision) and some members from the COGOP to keep the deception of the Exclusive Church going.
While I am thankful for the good that I learned, I think of the many that died believing that being a member of the COGOP earned them a one way ticket to Heaven and we know that just ain't so!
So, While I marvel at your one made crusade against the WOF guys - I think it is fruitless and absurd to keep your rant up and preach AGAINST these things instead of preaching FOR what is TRUTH!
I am not going to debate you - I just wanted to express my views concerning your rants and then close with this. I do appreciate my COGOP heritage and the Biblical Truths that I was taught. It has taken me many years to work through so many deceptive doctrines that we were taught. These crazy things are drilled and embedded in us. Every year when June 13 rolls around - there it is in my mind - FLAG DAY! When I hear the date 1903, I think of June 13, 1903 and the Arise & Shine of the CHURCH OF GO out of the dark ages.
When I see the name Tomlinson, it brings back memories of AJT & MAT being lifted on top of the podium with a flag in each hand and the multiple messages in tongues and interpretations - "Yea, This is my humble and anointed servant that I have chosen and ordained to lead thee. Yea, Follow ye him and I will continue to bless you my holy Bride and bring you to a place of perfection"... or something to that effect.
I just wonder if any of those that made these decisions and perpetrated these doctrines - including the Fields of the Wood whole scenario on us - had a clue how it would affect many generations of people that just wanted to seek God and His Will and be saved.
As much as I loved them - I could not live in the same house with them.
I don't understand your rant against the WOF when those of us that were raised COGOP (and are now in our 50's & 60's) were taught unbiblical doctrine from birth!
We were taught - "Entire Sanctification". We were taught that when we are Sanctified the adamic nature is eradicated and we no longer had the propensity to sin. We made mistakes, fell, messed up, had faults and failures - but God knows we did not call it SIN because WE HAD BEEN SANCTIFIED and we did not have a sin nature any longer! We were taught that the BLOOD was applied at Sanctification. I heard Brother Billy Murray teach that out of his book on the subject at Tomlinson College in 1975.
We were taught that the "Elder's" COG split off from us and stole money, property, buildings and members for many years. There was a LONG running feud between the two groups until just the past decade.
We were taught that WE were the Exclusive CHURCH OF GOD and that there would be an INFLOW into the COGOP just before the RAPTURE and that ONLY COGOP members would go in the Rapture and we would eat at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb for 7 years and be served by those that died while saved, but not joining the COGOP.
We were taught that those that wore jewelry of any kind were not saved.
We were taught that those that divorced and remarried were not saved but were in adultery. We were taught strange and deceptive definitions of adultery and fornication. These definitions came from AJT and the hierarchy.
We were taught against going to ball games, fairs, carnivals, skating rinks, theaters, bowling alleys, pool halls, swimming pools and places were people "mix bathed" and places of worldly amusement.
We were taught that AJT climbed Burger Mt in Cherokee County, NC and God revealed to him the last days CHURCH OF GOD and that he came down off the mountain and asked if this church was the Last Day's Church of God and was told it was and he asked to join it by covenant and was the first member, first Pastor, First General Overseer among many other firsts!
I have always and continue to have great regard for Bishop Tomlinson and his Vision and I am thankful for the good and Biblical Doctrines and Principals I learned from a baby until I resigned my credentials in the COGOP in 1977. I have high regard for many that stayed with it and tried to turn it and make it more mainstream and to forsake the Exclusive Doctrine.
I think it is horrible and deceitful that TCOG has been allowed to steal the identity, flag (with a small revision) and some members from the COGOP to keep the deception of the Exclusive Church going.
While I am thankful for the good that I learned, I think of the many that died believing that being a member of the COGOP earned them a one way ticket to Heaven and we know that just ain't so!
So, While I marvel at your one made crusade against the WOF guys - I think it is fruitless and absurd to keep your rant up and preach AGAINST these things instead of preaching FOR what is TRUTH!
I am not going to debate you - I just wanted to express my views concerning your rants and then close with this. I do appreciate my COGOP heritage and the Biblical Truths that I was taught. It has taken me many years to work through so many deceptive doctrines that we were taught. These crazy things are drilled and embedded in us. Every year when June 13 rolls around - there it is in my mind - FLAG DAY! When I hear the date 1903, I think of June 13, 1903 and the Arise & Shine of the CHURCH OF GO out of the dark ages.
When I see the name Tomlinson, it brings back memories of AJT & MAT being lifted on top of the podium with a flag in each hand and the multiple messages in tongues and interpretations - "Yea, This is my humble and anointed servant that I have chosen and ordained to lead thee. Yea, Follow ye him and I will continue to bless you my holy Bride and bring you to a place of perfection"... or something to that effect.
I just wonder if any of those that made these decisions and perpetrated these doctrines - including the Fields of the Wood whole scenario on us - had a clue how it would affect many generations of people that just wanted to seek God and His Will and be saved.
As much as I loved them - I could not live in the same house with them.
www.WaynePugh.com
Yes, You KNOW I was raised COGOP. IN my neck of the woods it was as ingrained as being white and from the south.
I was taught everything that you were taught. And it took me a long time to come out of it.
If I were of this age and mindset in those old days I would wage war against that closed minded cultism, but thankfully most of that is past.
But with exclusivity and specialness of COG Doctrine being done away with, there now remains a void. And I believe it is sucking up WOF and "Seeker Sensitive" garbage faster than a crack whore with a new fix.
Because I am loud and insistent, I have been physically threatened, nastilly castigated by State Overseers who sneer at apologies, and called insane by close family members.
But Wrong is wrong, I could move on and attend somewhere else -several COGOP people who have agreed with me in the past HAVE- but I'd like to see a Berean Pentecostal church.
I'm beginning to think there is no such thing.
I was taught everything that you were taught. And it took me a long time to come out of it.
If I were of this age and mindset in those old days I would wage war against that closed minded cultism, but thankfully most of that is past.
But with exclusivity and specialness of COG Doctrine being done away with, there now remains a void. And I believe it is sucking up WOF and "Seeker Sensitive" garbage faster than a crack whore with a new fix.
Because I am loud and insistent, I have been physically threatened, nastilly castigated by State Overseers who sneer at apologies, and called insane by close family members.
But Wrong is wrong, I could move on and attend somewhere else -several COGOP people who have agreed with me in the past HAVE- but I'd like to see a Berean Pentecostal church.
I'm beginning to think there is no such thing.
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paul
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Atlanta Bishop
Your post I believe is so typical of many of us that left cogop. What I find interesting is that many of us during our time in cogop did not accept every thing that was held as the norm. And I know for many that stayed working for change ( which much has changed) they did not hold sacred many of the doctrines that were still being held onto by the establishment.
So why is it so hard for some to realize that one can be a part of an organization, and not hold exclusively to every thing that is generally associated with the movement?
Your post I believe is so typical of many of us that left cogop. What I find interesting is that many of us during our time in cogop did not accept every thing that was held as the norm. And I know for many that stayed working for change ( which much has changed) they did not hold sacred many of the doctrines that were still being held onto by the establishment.
So why is it so hard for some to realize that one can be a part of an organization, and not hold exclusively to every thing that is generally associated with the movement?
You cannot effectively love and minister to others when you are obsessed with protecting
and preserving yourself.
and preserving yourself.
paul wrote:. What I find interesting is that many of us during our time in cogop did not accept every thing that was held as the norm. And I know for many that stayed working for change..
Absolutely and well said Paul... and I ( and know you do as well ) personally still love all those still working.
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AtlantaBishop
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The Lingo
I too applaud those who have worked inside the system to bring a change. I see a lot of positives in the COGOP and know it has not been easy to turn the ship over the years to reflect a more balanced theology and to embrace CHANGE and the criticism that goes along with it.
It does concern me that when I hear the GO and others in General Leadership preaching use the very same lingo that we heard all our lives while in it. We all know when they say - "The Church" what they mean is the COGOP. I know it is ingrained in them but it still sounds to me that some of them still use the exclusive lingo quite a bit. I am not trying to be critical - that is just my personal observation.
It does concern me that when I hear the GO and others in General Leadership preaching use the very same lingo that we heard all our lives while in it. We all know when they say - "The Church" what they mean is the COGOP. I know it is ingrained in them but it still sounds to me that some of them still use the exclusive lingo quite a bit. I am not trying to be critical - that is just my personal observation.
www.WaynePugh.com
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Pastor Gary
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Re: The Lingo
AtlantaBishop wrote:It does concern me that when I hear the GO and others in General Leadership preaching use the very same lingo that we heard all our lives while in it. We all know when they say - "The Church" what they mean is the COGOP. I know it is ingrained in them but it still sounds to me that some of them still use the exclusive lingo quite a bit. I am not trying to be critical - that is just my personal observation.
You mean like the catholics ads running on TV inviting people to come back "to the Church Jesus started"?
"God is excited to show you mercy. He rises to give you His compassion." (Isaiah 30:18)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
"For surely, O LORD, you bless the righteous; you surround them with your favor as with a shield." (Psalm 5:12)
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AtlantaBishop
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So True!
Gary, that is SO TRUE! When I saw the commercial - I immediately thought of the CHURCH OF GOD OF PROPHECY! LOL
It is so funny the things that will conjure up thoughts of the COGOP, Old White Clapboard buildings that resemble the old State Tabernacles, the same kind of stone that was on the Old Tabernacle in Cleveland of our Childhood, Somebody waving a handkerchief, There is a church nearby named - The Church! LOL Precious Memories!
It is so funny the things that will conjure up thoughts of the COGOP, Old White Clapboard buildings that resemble the old State Tabernacles, the same kind of stone that was on the Old Tabernacle in Cleveland of our Childhood, Somebody waving a handkerchief, There is a church nearby named - The Church! LOL Precious Memories!
www.WaynePugh.com
Being that I was raised in Tennesssee (and was even a PK in Cleveland at one time) I am familiar with all the EXTREMES of old COGOP.
I've heard A J TOmlinson preached from the Bible at Peerless Road.
Frequently, as in this thread, I hear old stories and the way it was and the fellowship and the commaraderie etc etc spoken of fondly.
BUt if you talk to others who have been involved in cultic organization they have the same affection for the good things of their cultic past: the sense of family, the good times etc.
HAving come out of the COGOP-cult I still have trouble wrestling with extreme legalism and the self-condemnation it instilled. (If you think I am terrible and harsh, times that by twelve for my self recrimination). Having left the cultic mindset about 12 years ago, I still wrestle with determining what Christian belief is Biblically based and what is not: Which is why I argue, argue fiercely, and try to inform myself on all sides of an issue.
I've heard A J TOmlinson preached from the Bible at Peerless Road.
Frequently, as in this thread, I hear old stories and the way it was and the fellowship and the commaraderie etc etc spoken of fondly.
BUt if you talk to others who have been involved in cultic organization they have the same affection for the good things of their cultic past: the sense of family, the good times etc.
HAving come out of the COGOP-cult I still have trouble wrestling with extreme legalism and the self-condemnation it instilled. (If you think I am terrible and harsh, times that by twelve for my self recrimination). Having left the cultic mindset about 12 years ago, I still wrestle with determining what Christian belief is Biblically based and what is not: Which is why I argue, argue fiercely, and try to inform myself on all sides of an issue.
Gerald wrote:I still have trouble wrestling with extreme legalism and the self-condemnation it instilled. (If you think I am terrible and harsh, times that by twelve for my self recrimination).
self-recrimination - a blaming of oneself, esp. a remorseful or persistent blaming
Thanks for sharing that and please don't take offense. I 100% hear you and understand where you are. The wonderful mindblowing news is that Jesus came to free us of this. He came to give us ABUNDANT NEW LIFE! That is the GOOD NEWS.. that my friend is the GOSPEL.
******
Romans 8 - Paul Describes Life Through the Spirit
1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace.
******
Compound in context with the author above... Saul was a rotten religious MURDERER... but now in Christ... Paul is 100% new. Blameless. Dangerously FREE. Whooo Hooo. That's MY FATHER! It was a GIFT BY HIS OWN CHOICE.
Understand what your inheritance is.
Understand what amazing high price has been paid for you and your freedom.
Ask the Holy Spirit to reveal this to you. That is His Ministry. Paul says the natural man can't see it. It's only by the Spirit.
Understanding the revealed Goodness of God will set you free and change your life forever.
It will root out self-recrimination in your heart and replace it will HIS LOVE and PEACE.
John 10:27 - Jesus says..
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
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