Minutemanproject.com

[MacUser]

Very interesting whether you agree or not. I currently believe we need to definately sure our southern borders so we know WHOM is coming across etc. No 9-11 havoc etc.

Read what this group of concerned citizens plan to do.
http://minutemanproject.com/affirmation.html

[Mike Vande]

Add a category;
Vigilanteism scares the be-doobies out of me.

[Dale]

I am really not sure what the best answer is here. I believe that this is kind of a twisted way of stopping individuals from crossing our boarders. It was not that long ago that the United States was called the Melting Pot (many people from different backgrounds blending together to be Americans). Today we would probably be more of a Salad Bowl (Americans who recognize their cultural diversity but come together to form a community). Why should we turn people away? Why should we fear new blood coming in? At the sametime, we must be careful that this new blood isnt going to cause harm to who we are. I am not sure what the best course of action should be, but I am sure there is something that is acceptible.

Dale

[Pastor Gary]

Why should we turn people away? Why should we fear new blood coming in?

For me, it is not a question of turning people away. It is the legality of the way these folks have chosen to come. I have friends from Taiwan who are educated, wealthy, productive and willing to assimilate into American society, but can't get in. They live in Vancouver BC instead. It is an insult that they are prohibited because they choose to be legal, while tens of thousands creep across the river to come, enjoy our freedoms that they have not legally acquired, and have no intention of becoming Americans -- only foreign nationals retaining their own language, customs, cultures and mores while flauting our sovereignty.

Generations of immigrants came here from all over the world - legally - and they did their best to learn our language, our laws, our customs and become assimilated Americans as quickly as possible. Not anymore.

Michael Savage has it right on this one: Nations are defined by Borders, Language and Culture.

[Dale]

Why should we turn people away? Why should we fear new blood coming in?

For me, it is not a question of turning people away. It is the legality of the way these folks have chosen to come. I have friends from Taiwan who are educated, wealthy, productive and willing to assimilate into American society, but can't get in. They live in Vancouver BC instead. It is an insult that they are prohibited because they choose to be legal, while tens of thousands creep across the river to come, enjoy our freedoms that they have not legally acquired, and have no intention of becoming Americans -- only foreign nationals retaining their own language, customs, cultures and mores while flauting our sovereignty.

Generations of immigrants came here from all over the world - legally - and they did their best to learn our language, our laws, our customs and become assimilated Americans as quickly as possible. Not anymore.

Michael Savage has it right on this one: Nations are defined by Borders, Language and Culture.

My questions would extend to your friends from Taiwan. Perhaps the problem is not illegal immigration, but rather too strick of immigration laws.

I live in a state with a high percentage of illegal immigrants. I find them to be hard working individuals, who want to support their families as best they know how. The sad thing is, they make better money in Georgia picking watermelons than working in their native lands. So they come here, obtain employment, and send money back home.

As far as the "assimilated" Americans, why should people be required to give up thier cultural identity? Should they learn English, yes, because that is the language spoken by those of us in the United States. Should they learn US history? Yes, because they need to see how they are a part of the American dream. But should they be sent through a beurocratic system that completely strips them of everything and the end results is a "normal" American? Absolutely not!

Dale

[ImaPK]

Dale reverse the roles(and PG knows what I mean)move to another country and apply for citizenship...you will be required to assimilate into their culture and their ways regardless of where you came from originally...people have come to this country for various reasons and give up their citizenship in their former country to become Americans...better analogy...Christians gave up ALL there sinful ways to become a member of the Body of Christ should they be allowed to "dabble" in sin because of their former life?

[Dale]

Dale reverse the roles(and PG knows what I mean)move to another country and apply for citizenship...you will be required to assimilate into their culture and their ways regardless of where you came from originally...people have come to this country for various reasons and give up their citizenship in their former country to become Americans...better analogy...Christians gave up ALL there sinful ways to become a member of the Body of Christ should they be allowed to "dabble" in sin because of their former life?

That's the problem. What America do you want them to assimilate into? Do you want them to be Southern, African American, Native American, New England, Mid Western? What type of American do you want them to be?

Its easy to say let's assimilate, but much more difficult to pin point exactly how that is to be. I do not have an issue with new Americans learning our history and our language, but that's the beauty of it. Once they become a citizen, they are an American too. They form new cultures. Redefining what it means to be an American to fit who they are.

Perhaps if you could define what it means to be an American, then I would know weather or not I completely agree with the concept of assimilation.

Dale

[Pastor Gary]

[ImaPK]

Dale I think this individual said it better then I ever could

www.heritage.org/Research/Education/hl784.cfm

[Who new]

I don't have questions about keeping people from crossing the borders. Yes, that needs to happen. The trouble comes from having anyone that takes a hankering to doing it. There are criminal Americans that are more than happy to torture and abuse. When there's a border guard then there's a way to keep track of them. When anyone and everyone can pick these people up crossing the border then anyone and everyone can rape them, steal from them, pick them up and hold them captive or sell them as sex slaves. We open up another Abu Graib when we allow a citizen guard to do the job that a trained and professional border guard isn't doing.

[MacUser]

This to me is no more that a Huge Neighborhood Watch program for our country. If it's done correctly with the crazies and whacko's weeded out.. it can be a very incredible thing. Average Americans again taking charge.. effecting change - showing that a Govt program isn't always the answer.

Put this a little closer home. Speaking of your own personal house.. would you leave the doors wide open to anyone, everyone, at any time? Absolutely not! You would want to know whom was entering your house for the safety of your family.

This is it in a nutshell.. has nothing to do with race, religion, creed, languages, lifestyle choices, work ethics etc, etc.

[Dale]

Dale I think this individual said it better then I ever could

www.heritage.org/Research/Education/hl784.cfm

ImaPK,

I did not have time to fully read what Senator Alexander of Tennessee had to say, but I did skim it. Much of what I saw I agreed with. Yes, there are common bonds that make us all Americans. We all agree that all people are created equal and are endowed by their creator with certain inalienible rights. We all treasure our freedom. We all love democracy. These qualities transend the different segments of the American population. In fact, I do not see the need of anyone coming here if they did not accept this.

However, Americans are more than the sum of our similarities. There are also differences that make us unique. The different cultures blend together forming a sort of "Pentecost" if you will. Our strength lies not in our unity, but in our unity despite diversity.

The truth is, it is impossible to define what an American is. The reason we cannot do this is because there are so many different Americans. Each group with its own views, their own beliefs, their own faith, their own practices, their own tastes, yet we all come together to be America.

Dale

[ImaPK]

Dale said

The reason we cannot do this is because there are so many different Americans. Each group with its own views, their own beliefs, their own faith, their own practices, their own tastes, yet we all come together to be America.

Then why can't I call myself a WASP-American without being labeled a racist?...why when I put up the Confederate Battleflag I'm a racist?...why when I say I'm proud of my Southern heritage I'm a racist?...In the old days when RACISM was rampant you didn't have AFRO-Americans,MEXICAN-Americans,IRISH-Americans,or all the ETHNIC Americans...YOU HAD AMERICANS....you ever heard of AFRO-Germans in Germany?...or MEXICAN-Swedes in Sweden?...or IRISH-Italians in Italy?...we have had our own "culture" since we became a nation... it's called AMERICAN...up until the 1970s when "political correctness" came into vogue we had that "culture"......Spanish use to be an elective in school and now some states make it a requirement...people who come to the U.S. want all the "freebies" without paying for them the old fashion way...EARNING THEM...people move to this country for a better life and I have no problem with that...having been to at least twenty different countries I can say without hesitation that there is no better place in the world like the U.S.(Australia is a close second)...I have no problem with people wanting to hold on to their heritage but in my book, having served my country with honor, the AMERICAN HERITAGE is the first priority of ALL people living in this country, be they American or foreign born.

[Dale]

Dale said

The reason we cannot do this is because there are so many different Americans. Each group with its own views, their own beliefs, their own faith, their own practices, their own tastes, yet we all come together to be America.

Then why can't I call myself a WASP-American without being labeled a racist?...why when I put up the Confederate Battleflag I'm a racist?...why when I say I'm proud of my Southern heritage I'm a racist?...In the old days when RACISM was rampant you didn't have AFRO-Americans,MEXICAN-Americans,IRISH-Americans,or all the ETHNIC Americans...YOU HAD AMERICANS....you ever heard of AFRO-Germans in Germany?...or MEXICAN-Swedes in Sweden?...or IRISH-Italians in Italy?...we have had our own "culture" since we became a nation... it's called AMERICAN...up until the 1970s when "political correctness" came into vogue we had that "culture"......Spanish use to be an elective in school and now some states make it a requirement...people who come to the U.S. want all the "freebies" without paying for them the old fashion way...EARNING THEM...people move to this country for a better life and I have no problem with that...having been to at least twenty different countries I can say without hesitation that there is no better place in the world like the U.S.(Australia is a close second)...I have no problem with people wanting to hold on to their heritage but in my book, having served my country with honor, the AMERICAN HERITAGE is the first priority of ALL people living in this country, be they American or foreign born.

Let me say, that I am proud of my southern heritage. I am proud to say that I had family members fight and die in the Civil War. I am proud to say that one was a General under Robert E. Lee. That is my heritage. I do not say you cannot be a southerner. Be who you are.

The Confederate Battle flag is everything you make it. You and I both know that often times that flag was flown, not in its traditional sense of states' rights, but for racist reasons. It is flown as the Klan demonstrates in the streets. For that reason I understand why some call it a racist symbol. But I also understand that it is part of my heritage.

I agree, that it is sad that Southern heritage is the only one that is to be repressed. That is wrong. It's not fair to the millions of Southerners who are still proud of where we came from.

In my very first post I acknowledged the shift in the view of what it means to be an American. Allow me to reiterate that. At the turn of the 20th century America was a melting pot. Today we are more of a Salad Bowl.

I love the beauty of diversity. God loves diversity. He made us all different for a reason. He made many colors, many different plants and animals, many different ethinic groups and established the various cultures. He made us how and who we are. Why not just be how God made us? Not only with our individual personalities, but also with our traditions passed down by our cultures, rather it be Southern, or Hispanic, or Japanese, or what have you, let's just be who we are.

I believe it was Ronald Reagan that once called for America to be a "shining city on a hill." To borrow a line from Toby Mac, "We can never be a shining city, until we become a diverse-city."

Dale

[Pastor Gary]

The Confederate Battle flag is everything you make it. You and I both know that often times that flag was flown, not in its traditional sense of states' rights, but for racist reasons. It is flown as the Klan demonstrates in the streets. For that reason I understand why some call it a racist symbol. But I also understand that it is part of my heritage.

Yeah, the old Stars & Bars is a lightning rod symbol. I grew up in Alabama and graduated from Butler High School -- the REBELS. Confederate flags, Dixie, that little pot-bellied rebel soldier character... and we had black football players, black cheerleaders, black kids jumping and yelling hooray when Dixie was played for every touchdown. Nothing racial in it there, just a symbol of heritage and regional pride.

Flash forward: Now I live 5,000 miles west of Alabama and pastor quite a few black people (along with pretty much every shade of brown, yellow and pink) and am sensitive to their feelings and what that same symbol means to them. It is a different time and place. While I can see that flag as a friendly reminder of my southern heritage, some of them may see it as a symbol of "the bad old days" of Jim Crow, Bull Conner and the fire hoses, a bus burned in Anniston on its way to Selma... I love these folks far more than I love any heritage symbols, and -- even though my motives might be pure -- I would never display the Stars and Bars so as not to hurt my Brothers and Sisters in Christ who might not see it the same way.

1 Corinthians 10:23 (New International Version) applies for me in this regard --

“Everything is permissible”–but not everything is beneficial. “Everything is permissible”–but not everything is constructive.