Why did you leave?

[Shellie]

ImaPK wrote:

addressed"..."attacked"...all semantics...Kenya used the "Bride of Christ" and she wasn't "addressed"

Whatever, ImaPK. There is no way that what I said could be viewed as an attack unless you are overly sensitive. Which you are when it comes to TCoG.

Kenya didn't slur the church and its leadership. You are comparing apples and oranges.

[ImaPK]

ImaPK wrote:

addressed"..."attacked"...all semantics...Kenya used the "Bride of Christ" and she wasn't "addressed"

Whatever, ImaPK. There is no way that what I said could be viewed as an attack unless you are overly sensitive. Which you are when it comes to TCoG.

Kenya didn't slur the church and its leadership. You are comparing apples and oranges.

I am as "overly sensitive" toward TCOG as someone else I know is about COGOP

[Shellie]

ImaPK wrote:

I am as "overly sensitive" toward TCOG as someone else I know is about COGOP

The only thing I am overly sensitive about is slandering good men.

[ImaPK]

ImaPK wrote:

I am as "overly sensitive" toward TCOG as someone else I know is about COGOP

The only thing I am overly sensitive about is slandering good men.

Well now I can agree with that but you left out the women who are/were in "leadership" that she said

[Dr. Ron]

Pastor Bill et.al,

What this has all come down to is a disagreement over worship styles. That's why I said a few pages ago that there is more than one style of church and idea about worship.

We use contemporary music because that is what our target group listens to and will accept. I grew up on southern gospel and the blue book. We don't do that very much because it doesn't relate to our people. I still like it , but."it's not about me". One of our praise choir members said the other night in rehersal that they didn't like a particular song and the entire group said,"it ain't about you".

Pastor Bill has recently joined the ranks of the pentecostals. He grew up in what we used to term "dry churches". Since he has this new found freedom to actually express himself without condemnation from his denom, I am sure he feels the need to keep that freedom available to others. I understand more than most about this. However, the issue of God "overwhelming us and taking us over and we just can't help it" cannot be validated by scripture any more than the exclusivity of the body. I have had the HG for over 50 years. I have spoken in tongues likely more than you all. NEVER once did the HG grab my tongue and run away with it ....never did I start running without knowing that my legs were moving..never did I jump up and down without having full knowledge of my actions. This was MY response to an emotional feeling. Was it allowed ? No, It was encouraged as a test of the power of the service. I averaged 23 nights per month in revival services for over 20 years. Like Pastor Gary, I Have seen it all. Was it all bad? Nah..it was fun.
Did it mostly glorify God? We thought it did.
My point is, if you want that kind of worship, it's okey. But don't blame it on God. I will never believe that God sits on His throne and says, "Hey Jesus , watch this, I'm gonna make old Pastor Bill run around the church until he is out of breath. I need some running glory today". That is ludicrious. But in the immortal words of Billy Graham when asked if he believed that pentecostals would go to heavn he replied,"if they don't run past it". It is a mark of spiritual immaturity for us to say , When God is in it....... we have no clue what that means. True worship is not an act of music or emotion. True worship is when we become God with skin on.

[dalebert]

True worship is when we become God with skin on.

ummmm....I will dwell on this all week end....

[dalebert]

True worship is when we become God with skin on.

ummmm....I will dwell on this all week end....

When God is in it..

Its like the sayin"Lets have church tonight" or "wow we really had church today"....I have often wonder what "having church" really means?

[Kenya]

ImaPk wrote:

BUT the opening post was "Why did you leave COGOP" and when sunflower gave their reasons they were attacked...I guess you can "leave" COGOP for any reason but joining TCOG

No, Sunflower was not "attacked". She was addressed on her statements. If you truly feel that what I said is an "attack" then I don't know how else to converse without being viewed as a bully.

I did not call Sunflower on the carpet for leaving the CoGoP. I called her on the carpet for her "attack" of the CoGoP. She could have left it off at "I felt the church was no longer the Bride." Instead she stated that CoGoP was no longer biblical and then she proceeded to slam the leadership. It was that "attack" that I addressed.

"addressed"..."attacked"...all semantics...Kenya used the "Bride of Christ" and she wasn't "addressed" ...Hey Kenya can you show us all where the Bible says "Bride of Christ"..Book, chapter and verse?

imapk, I promise you - I didn't mean anything derrogatory (sp?) there. I was simply trying to describe a reason for leaving that I know applies to some - we had some to leave our church for that reason.

[Brenda]

Well, I'm just sitting back here reading and taking it all in.

Could what I have been apart of all my life been wrong in their type of worship.
I'm scratching my head.
But at the same time, I'm remembering events. I'm remembering the spirit of God being so real, so strong in the service that you could see a grey mist.
I remember looking at the alter, just in front of the pulpit and seeing a figure in white from the shoulders down and this figure walking down the center of the isle.
I have been in church service to where you "just knew" that God wanted to do something. Where there was a heaviest of the spirit up on you. Where all you could do was cry and pray... God you know the needs, we want your will to be done, not ours.
Where someone under the conviction power of the Holy Ghost, would make their way to the alter and surrender their heart and life to the Lord.
Was this from a hyped up service or was it from a move of God?
God knowing all things, knew there were souls that needed a lift that needed a touch from him to have their burdens lifted. To be ministered unto as only He can do. To be incouraged in their spirit.

True I think there are people who get within themselves to draw attention to themselves. The Holy Ghost is not for the shout, its for the workings with in of a person and also for the ministry.
But if its of God, he says he don't do anything to be puffed up or unseemingly.
The spirit is humbling, its healing, its rejuvenating.. it seeks out the hidden things in the hearts of man. It reproves. It, it it. Or should I say, He.. for the Holy Ghost is part of the triune God head. When HE comes he will..............!
I think there are times He is quiet and then there are times He comes with out side evidence.
He sure did on the day of pentecost.. people staggered around like drunk men.
Did you ever see how a drunk man looks. He staggers, falls down, he don't have full control of himself.

We can't put God and the workings of the Holy Spirit in a box and say he only acts/works one way. We should not try and control him, but let him control us.

[ImaPK]

ImaPk wrote:

BUT the opening post was "Why did you leave COGOP" and when sunflower gave their reasons they were attacked...I guess you can "leave" COGOP for any reason but joining TCOG

No, Sunflower was not "attacked". She was addressed on her statements. If you truly feel that what I said is an "attack" then I don't know how else to converse without being viewed as a bully.

I did not call Sunflower on the carpet for leaving the CoGoP. I called her on the carpet for her "attack" of the CoGoP. She could have left it off at "I felt the church was no longer the Bride." Instead she stated that CoGoP was no longer biblical and then she proceeded to slam the leadership. It was that "attack" that I addressed.

"addressed"..."attacked"...all semantics...Kenya used the "Bride of Christ" and she wasn't "addressed" ...Hey Kenya can you show us all where the Bible says "Bride of Christ"..Book, chapter and verse?

imapk, I promise you - I didn't mean anything derrogatory (sp?) there. I was simply trying to describe a reason for leaving that I know applies to some - we had some to leave our church for that reason.

Aw Kenya I was just funning with Shellie ...she wanted sunflower to show her chapter and verse about the "Bride of Christ"...I can't answer to any of your choices because I've never been a member of any denomination ...it has always amazed me that anytime this-or similar-type of threads are started that people can state they left COGOP for any number of reasons and joined another denomination or independent church(disfellowship, problems with the pastor, God led them elsewhere,etc.)and that is fine and dandy...but let them say it was doctrinal differences(especially D&R) or leaving the "old paths" and they are branded a heretic or a TCOGer...I wasn't alive back then but I've always wondered if the same kind of "branding" happened back in 1923...knowing some of the "old timers" I would "bet the farm" that it did...I've said this before "Who was right and who was wrong"...the same question can be asked today...ONLY GOD KNOWS THE ANSWER...a person's "walk with God" is what is going to get you to heaven, not which denomination you belong to...I apologize in advance for using their names but answer me this...neither Amydawn nor Tracy nor Dr.Ron are members of COGOP or TCOG...do you think they will make it to heaven in spite of this? ...NONE OF US ARE PERFECT but our walk with God, to the best of our ability, is what God looks at not what church we are members of...ok I'm giving up the "pulpit"

[DeWayneTN]

I am one of the more reserved folks you'll find in a service most of the time. However, there have been times that God called me out of my comfort zone to do things that are sometimes slightly "out of the ordinary" and sometimes downright "ludicrous." Sometimes there was fleshly motivations and emotional manipulation - I can see that now, but I also remember some incredibly special times when it was genuinely the Spirit of God taking over and my life was changed.

If the abuses you've seen make it difficult to be engaged in that kind of stuff again, I understand . . . believe me! I have to work to get past some of that stuff myself. But at the end of the day, God's still God and sometimes He works beyond my comprehension and understanding, whether I accept and agree with it or not.

[Dr. Ron]

Brenda,
I would not discount in a million years what you just wrote. I too have been in the midst of so many unbelievable situations. I know the working of the HG. I do not ever want to say that we have been mislead. I think that maybe some of us are not being clear with our communication. We are not talking about a bonafide move of God's spirit. We are talking about a "style of worship" where we feel compelled to comply with "come on now and let's get with it". The Mike Perky "Crank up the music and let's have church" mentality.

I do not throw the baby out with the bath water.....but we live in a different day. The message never changes,but sometimes the presentation changes. I do not discount the operation of the gifts, but the bible is clear on how it should be done. It must be done in decency. There are times when the sign is for the unbeliever.....but that is God's call. When he wishes to use the human for a sign to the unbeliever, he will. The bible is full of that as well.

My whole discourse has not been about the validity of the operation of the gifts but of the "fleshly manifestations" of "worship" that are not validated by scripture. I have done them all. Did I feel condemned? No. But it did bring ME more pleasure and emotional joy than anything else it might have accomplished. What you have experienced was likely real. You are the only judge of that since you were there. But we are talking about two entirely different things.

Enjoy the Lord.!

[Brenda]

I was in a bible study a few years ago, what got us on this subject, I'll never know. But I brought up this happening of the spirit being so thick that it was like looking through a fog and I mentioned the year.
A lady sitting there in the bible study said, I remember that. I seen it also.

Just thought I'd mention that. In the mouth of two or three witnesses.. maybe? aye??

I'm enjoying this subject and learning a few things in the process.

True we are in a different time and what use to work with our young people won't work today.
We have to come down on a new age level in order to reach them. Jesus did for all of us.
The word of God is for all ages. The application of it changes to meet the needs of that generations. Like you say, we can't throw out the baby with the bath water. Keep that which is good.

He who wins souls is wise.

[Poimen]

You Know.


But that's doctrinal disagreement also ... isn't it ???

[Poimen]

Granted there has always been abuse of the manifestation of gifts... and Dr. Ron I am so glad you qualified/clarified your comments to Brenda, I can dig that.

However, I just wanted to point out that the Pentecostal movement was all about being Christ centered, biblically valid, and non traditional (in the negative invalidating scripture and the direction/moving of the Spirit sense). True Pentecostals remain that. Certainly abuses abound.

Lables seem important at times and at others only seem to conflict and confuse don't they ?

I do believe that those who have experienced the baptism of the Holy Ghost subsequent and distinct from the new birth are responsible to share that experience by example, Christian walk, and verbal witness with other believers. Therefore Brenda I do not feel a person who has the baptism of the Holy Ghost could ever be fully satisfied (generally speaking) in a church where the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit (the real ones) where taught against.