Why did you leave?

[Poimen]

just wanted to say I agree with the idea expressed in he above posts (in my own words below)...

The Method may change but the Message must not.

[Sunflowertabi]

Sorry I could not reply yesturday.i am sorry Shellie that you feel the truth hurts.I am not slamming the leadership by simple stating a true fact. I would like Shellie to give me a biblical answer for the choices that COGOP is making.Are the leadership following The holy Ghost? Or are they following their own opinion? The holy Ghost does not change what he wants his Church to be. The holy Ghost spoke years ago and nothing should change now.We should still be lead by the same spirit.

[Pastor Gary]

...the truth hurts.

That sounds VERY arrogant and condescending.

I am not slamming the leadership by simple stating a true fact.

You are stating your PERCEPTION, your interpretation of a "fact."

I would like Shellie to give me a biblical answer for the choices that COGOP is making.

They have spent years in research, prayer, fasting and study over each issue, and have published lengthy papers generously referenced with scripture to explain each action. Read them, and then argue with those papers if you choose. If you don't have them, let us know and someone here will no doubt provide the documentation. From the tone of your posts I suspect that you in the "don't-confuse-me-with-scriptures-my-mind-is-made-up" mode.

Are the leadership following The holy Ghost?

Yes. Next question.

Or are they following their own opinion?

No! My Overseer, one of my local members, is on the doctrine committee. I know for a fact he entered some of those studies with one view and, after study and prayer, came to a different view. It was not easy for him to change long-held views.

The holy Ghost does not change what he wants his Church to be. The holy Ghost spoke years ago and nothing should change now.We should still be lead by the same spirit.

Please help me out with that logic: if you are one who believes the church will be perfected, and you recognize the church has not been, and is not yet perfect, how do you expect it to ever GET perfect if "nothing should change?"

[Sunflowertabi]

when you stick to God's plan and don't change it things will be perfect.But when man steps in and tries to change what God has set in order the the whole things gets messed up.And yes my mind is made up.Let me share a scripture with you.1 Peter 2:9.This scripture to me talks about us being a differant people.No where in the bible does it say to look like the world.The scripture tells us over and over to not look like the world.By COGOP now saying these differant things in question are ok they are conforming to this world and trying to make people comfortable,so that the church will increase by numbers.again no where in the bible does it say there will be millions in heaven it says the opposite.What i really want to know is why everyone is ok with all of the non biblical changes? Why aren't more people putting up a fus to those who are letting down God's standard.THE SCRIPTURE.

[Paully_44]

The scripture tells us over and over to not look like the world.

What does it mean to "not look like the world"?

By COGOP now saying these differant things in question are ok they are conforming to this world and trying to make people comfortable,

Could it be that the leadership may have gotten things wrong over the years or may not have been as enlightened as they once thought they were and are not trying to re-evaluate their biblical understanding?

so that the church will increase by numbers.

Interesting theory. I wonder how many churches are actually increasing in size as a result of this?

Why aren't more people putting up a fus to those who are letting down God's standard.THE SCRIPTURE.

Exactly, when will someone stand and take issue with people who drive 60mph in a 55mph speed zone. Why must we continue to have potlucks and "all you can eats" when we know there are some in our midst who will eat until they can only sit back, undo that top button and take a nap... until desert. Why must some continue move that little white dimpled ball to help with their next shot knowing that is cheating

[Blended]

Why must some continue move that little white dimpled ball to help with their next shot knowing that is cheating Wink Wink

Hey I always play by the rules

The PGA rules!!!!


Preachers Golf Association!!!!!!

[Shellie]

Sigh....................

[ImaPK]

Sigh....................

I agree... let's get back on topic and take the disagreement to a new thread

[dolfan]

Therefore Brenda I do not feel a person who has the baptism of the Holy Ghost could ever be fully satisfied (generally speaking) in a church where the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit (the real ones) where taught against.

Now, you know I respect you and have a high regard for you. But, I'm going to have to say I'm "exhibit A" to the contrary, IF (and big "if") you mean by "taught against" a general rejection of the manifestations as being normative in worship service as we experience it here today.

I can tell you that I spoke in tongues, privately and publicly, and did all the 'stuff' we connect with 'being Pentecostal'. I can tell you that I was as genuine and heartfelt and sincere and studied about it as I could be at the time. In the end, it just didn't 'mean' anything. I can't point to anything about it that changed me into a more Christ-like person. Now, I can with equal genuineness, heartfelt sincerity and after further study say, "I changed my mind. I have a different biblical understanding that I will link my experience to." And, since then I can say that a lot has done in my life as a non-Pentecostal believer in non-Pentecostal churches that has made those transforming changes.

[Sunflowertabi]

If you say the leadership was wrong in their interpriting scripture then you are calling the Holy Ghost a liar,because back in the day that is how the church was run.By the Holy Ghost.Not now it's what feels good and I beleive from what I saw.Majority rules.It was actually disturbing.The Church has to have government that is lead by the Holy Ghost or it will never work.

[Blended]

If you say the leadership was wrong in their interpriting scripture then you are calling the Holy Ghost a liar,because back in the day that is how the church was run.By the Holy Ghost.Not now it's what feels good and I beleive from what I saw.Majority rules.It was actually disturbing.The Church has to have government that is lead by the Holy Ghost or it will never work.

Back in the day the assembly voted on aproving comm. reports that were directed by the general overseer so it was not the Holy Ghost but AJ Tomlinson's opinion and what he accepted and proposed for the church
read your history the Holy Ghost is leading today just as he led "in the Day" in my oppinion we are following better

[RamboPreacher]

If you say the leadership was wrong in their interpriting scripture then you are calling the Holy Ghost a liar,because back in the day that is how the church was run.By the Holy Ghost.Not now it's what feels good and I beleive from what I saw.Majority rules.It was actually disturbing.The Church has to have government that is lead by the Holy Ghost or it will never work.

Back in the day the assembly voted on aproving comm. reports that were directed by the general overseer so it was not the Holy Ghost but AJ Tomlinson's opinion and what he accepted and proposed for the church
read your history the Holy Ghost is leading today just as he led "in the Day" in my oppinion we are following better

if I am not mistaken teh minutes even mention something about a "compromise" in the definition of some words ("fornication", if I am not mistaken). but I am not COGOP church history expert (yet).

[doris]

I'm answering the question, Why did you leave? This thread has traveled awhile since it started.

I left because I was a sinner. I wanted to live a different lifestyle than that which is acceptable as a member of the church, so I asked them to take my name off. They did. I always went to COGOP and raised my child in the church. Most of you know that she (Ondra) is the (Perfect Specimen of a Child, any Child). So I thought I did ok. She was a christian and I was not. Most of my family was in the church, so I always had someone praying for me, and I was able to live as I pleased. But the Lord always knows and always keeps check on us and when enough prayers are prayed he reigns us in, just like we planned it that way. I fought, but today am so thankful for all the prayers and for the Lord for being patient with me. I love him so much and just want to do his will. I rejoined FOTW, COGOP in 1999.

I was a single parent, divorced when she was three, so I felt like I had to live single, (though it did not keep me from sinning). When all the dust settles and we find it was alright to be married to someone else all along, I think I will really be ticked off for a few days, then I will get over it.

[Poimen]

Now, you know I respect you and have a high regard for you. But, I'm going to have to say I'm "exhibit A" to the contrary, IF (and big "if") you mean by "taught against" a general rejection of the manifestations as being normative in worship service as we experience it here today.

And I also have a profound respect and appreciation for you.

By "taught against" I am referring to a denial of the manifestation of the gifts of the spirit -- cessasionism. I am not referring specifcally to ( for or against) their place in a worship service.

Perhaps a rephrase would be better? ... any believer who accepts the baptsim of the Holy Ghost as a subsequent experience to salvation and accepts the manifestation of the gifts of the Spirit (per 1 Cor. 12) as a normative/continuing experience could not generally be "satisfied" in a church or fellowship where an opposite view was held.

[Full Quiver]

when you stick to God's plan and don't change it things will be perfect.But when man steps in and tries to change what God has set in order the the whole things gets messed up.And yes my mind is made up.Let me share a scripture with you.1 Peter 2:9.This scripture to me talks about us being a differant people.No where in the bible does it say to look like the world.The scripture tells us over and over to not look like the world.By COGOP now saying these differant things in question are ok they are conforming to this world and trying to make people comfortable,so that the church will increase by numbers.again no where in the bible does it say there will be millions in heaven it says the opposite.What i really want to know is why everyone is ok with all of the non biblical changes? Why aren't more people putting up a fus to those who are letting down God's standard.THE SCRIPTURE.

Sunflower, the Amish look less like the world than any TCoG people I have seen. In fact I visited a TCoG service yesterday to hear an old friend preach (who I love and respect) and I saw a TCoG member sitting in her pew during service with much of herself uncovered. She was wearing a dress which buttoned all the way down the front from the collar down into the skirt. It was split very high and as she sat with her legs crossed the skirt was flipped open for many to see her thighs. My wife pointed this out to me and nearly snapped a digital photo. Saturday I was at a family get together where a TCoG minister was wearing a pair of shorts and getting very wet on a slip and slide. There are photos to show how un-lady like this appeared. I could go on and on.
I was a staunch TCoGer. I cut no one any slack. I was wrong. Am I backslid? NOPE! I still believe in holiness and have learned alot about true biblical holiness since being away from TCoG. I read my Bible for myself. I study it and pray about it and do not let man's opinion on Sunday morning influence me. TCoG has so many questions that it can not answer yet wants to tell everyone else how to live and what is right. I found the worship service to be very charasmatic and egotistical. I was extremely disappointed and turned off.

The Church has to have government that is lead by the Holy Ghost or it will never work.

With that being said I will ask. Who made the general appointments at the last TCoG assembly? I know who called them out, but who made the appointments. Who forced a licensed minister to say he was outside theocracy when he stood against the failed Q&S tax on tithes last year? Why are threats being made about the tax this year? Is it the Holy Ghost who is sending out letters from HeadQuarters and saying that if you don't submit then you are in rebellion?
Also if the Church had it all completely right back in AJ Tomlinson's day then why did they make a change to the D&R issue just a few years back?