Deliverance Ministries - Info

[Kenya]

When I did a search on google under "deliverance ministries", I found pages and pages of links to "Deliverance Ministries" that would not have been there a few years ago. Obviously, this is something that has taken off in the last few years and is growing. I have tried to find some information from an objective source, such as books, and there are none. I assume this type of ministry is too new for that. Therefore, would it be okay if we look at the "deliverance ministry" a little closer? Since it either is, or will affect us in some way or another?

If you have any type of 1st hand experience with this type of ministry, can you give us some specific examples of good or bad experiences you have had with "deliverance" ministry - and I am not refering to a regular church service - just specifically "deliverance ministries" that are in existence for that sole purpose.

The purpose of this strand is to find out more about the specifics of "deliverance ministries". Not to be a slam fest on anything - just the facts, maam, just the facts.

[Gerald Creasy]

I have had first hand expirience for about three years.

While those "in power" in the ministry would not deign to call me part of it
because I did not give my entire life over to the "leader" for him to order as he saw fit based upon his reading of the "demonic strongholds", I spent many hours watching, listening, recording in my mind, and participating in froth spewing, shrieking, sometimes violent "deliverance" ministries.

(The intimidation from these people is FORMIDABLE. When I stuttered awkwardly when talking to them as they visited the last Assembly I KNEW they were thinking "ah ha! Demons there!" And this is not an exageration: I was told that demonic rebellion could be displayed as frequent eye blinks!!!)


I began to wonder when I looked around after three years and saw the same folk going through the same type of deliverance.

The other extremes and oddities I have described elsewhere.

[Kenya]

I have not been to a deliverance service. I have been told that my cousin just needs "deliverance" from being down after her husband left her. That my family needs "deliverance" from a generational curse because of all the sickness and death lately.

Finally, my son attended youth camp in TN this past summer. We received a call after he returned from his visit in TN from one of the leaders at the camp (who had been involved in a deliverance ministry) who informed us that our son was delivered from the spirit of depression at camp. We then received a call from our son's mother (she also got a call) who was panicked about her son being "depressed" to the point of thinking about a custody change. Tell me this doesn't cause a big unmeritted disruption in our life!

Joey and I were discussing this last night. We have watched for signs of depression and only notice it on very rare occasion. Normally, he is a happy, well adjusted kid. All teens go through down times. It's normal. After speaking with him about what happened at camp, he told us that he was just kidding and acting stupid and saying "I'm going to kill myself" as he flipped over and landed on his back - and the staff observed this and freaked out. He also was quiet and to himself some - which we believe is normal since he doesn't live in TN and didn't know many there at the camp. We don't believe he is "depressed" in a serious way - if we did, he would be in counseling - (we have had him in Christian counseling before to deal with some anger issues). We also don't see ANY significant change in his behavior and attitude before or after the "deliverance". He is a great, normal kid.

[Mike Vande]

After speaking with him about what happened at camp, he told us that he was just kidding and acting stupid and saying "I'm going to kill myself" as he flipped over and landed on his back - and the staff observed this and freaked out. He also was quiet and to himself some - which we believe is normal since he doesn't live in TN and didn't know many there at the camp. We don't believe he is "depressed" in a serious way - if we did, he would be in counseling - (we have had him in Christian counseling before to deal with some anger issues). We also don't see ANY significant change in his behavior and attitude before or after the "deliverance". He is a great, normal kid.

The sheer, brain-dead credulity involved in this incident makes me wanna weep. There was no apparent spititual discernment, no leading from God, just some folks who saw behavior they didn't like, and said to themselves "Hmmm, this looks like what I have been told demonic activity looks like". It's a crock, and now it may cost you legal fees if the mother decides to take you to court over it. None of this garbage would be happening anywhere if people listened to God about this stuff instead of relying on the writings of folks like Neal Anderson and lesser known idiots of the same ilk.
When a demon presents itself, you don't need to wonder, you will KNOW it. And, if God's promises can be trusted, you will know what to do about it if and when you need to. Everything else is piffle, and doesn't even amount to the bovine end-product Gerald was too Christian to name on this site.
Sorry you are having to deal with stuff, Kenya. It's only bring to bring pain.

Vande

[Paully_44]

We had the OKFC deliverance team out to our church in Feb of 2002. I was able to attend one of the deliverance sessions. No flailing, no screaming, nothing out of the ordinary. Just simple quiet reflective prayers for me in area's that I needed help in. I was a Christian before I went in and feel like I came away stronger. For me, it was a positive experience that in no way was contrary to the bible.

[Kenya]

Paully, can you give us some more detail about the service? Was it like a typical revival service or something different? Or was something different about it? Was there a message? Was there an invitation? Was there a team of workers and what did they do?

[scooter]

I have the MANUAL at home but haven't had time to read it or post it.

I did however read that it was in no way a concrete "only way to true deliverance".

It seems to attempt in one setting to address any possible spiritual strong hold.

There is a questionaire which is the most all inclusive personal questionaire that I have ever seen.

There is a exaustive list of possible spiritual problems.

There are a few testimonies of lives changed.

A few verses of scripture.

That would be the case of Simon who believed and was baptized but had a root of bitterness or something like that.

When a spirit is gone out of a man, etc.

Basically its an attempt to help hurting people. Its a prayer and format for prayer.

I think its based upon the binding and loosing principle.

Now the faithless can't go there.

[scooter]

After speaking with him about what happened at camp, he told us that he was just kidding and acting stupid and saying "I'm going to kill myself" as he flipped over and landed on his back - and the staff observed this and freaked out. .

Response: I wonder how you would have felt it they had said nothing about it and later a problem developed.

I'm not saying they didn't over react.

[Pastor Bill]

Well I don't really know how to respond, I have not participated in "deliverance ministry" myself, but have had a close friend very involved in it and taken to the point of abuse before she finally just left the church.

I have been present when a demon manifested itself in an unsaved friend of mine, and had to cast it out (believe me this is NOT a pretty experience, nor is it as frequent as some would make us believe).

I would like to know more about these ministries, from what I have seen they spend alot of time pulling up things of the past (sins, temptations, and other problems) and cast out the demons that caused those things. It was explained to me that a person could be saved, but still under the bondage of these things (I don't see biblical support for this).

Others have said "it's just prayer and taking authority over Satan what's wrong with that" and that makes sense, but I am not sure what's new about that either, or what about that requires a special service and special techniques? Yes there are things in Christian's lives that we struggle with and we need to take authority over, but we have been doing that at altars in regular churches for years, why is that considered so new? probably because there is more to it than that, but everything that I have seen that is new has not been good?

[Pastor Bill]

Scooter,

I would be interested in what that manual says. Like I said I have seen some things that are way out of line, but I am not familiar with what the OKCFC is teaching about it (I assume that is the Manual you are speaking of since I did meet you there)

As I said I understand people need to be delivered from their afflictions, but I don't believe that it's all demons, or that much of the extremes I have seen can be of much help.

I guess the one thing I am most uncomfortable with is they seem to imply that it is needed for people do dig through their pasts and pull out things that they have already been forgiven of, and temptations they have already overcome rather than accepting those things as done.

In many cases I have seen "deliverance" almost like many see "sanctification" as a one time act or even process that perfects christians.

[scooter]

I guess the one thing I am most uncomfortable with is they seem to imply that it is needed for people do dig through their pasts and pull out things that they have already been forgiven of, and temptations they have already overcome rather than accepting those things as done..

Response: I've got to go through it myself as it has'nt been my highest priority.

I don't think there is any need of forgiveness of our own sins if we have been forgiven. However there may be people and past that we ourselves have not forgiven.

Father forgive us our trespass AS we forgive others.

There is no doubt in my mind that there are "saved" people with REAL issues, spiritually, like unforgiveness, bitterness, lusts, etc.

A prayer to help people find some solace should not be such a bone of contention to be picked apart.

We are having revival Fri-Sun. but I'll post tid bits when I can.

[Pastor Bill]

Yes scooter, I see where you are coming from there, but unfortunately that hasn't been what I have seen coming out of some of these ministries. I hope that isn't what OKCFC is doing, but I haven't seen anything to make me feel comfortable that it isn't either.

[Kenya]

After speaking with him about what happened at camp, he told us that he was just kidding and acting stupid and saying "I'm going to kill myself" as he flipped over and landed on his back - and the staff observed this and freaked out. .

Response: I wonder how you would have felt it they had said nothing about it and later a problem developed.

I'm not saying they didn't over react.

Actually, they could have caused a much bigger problem about making a "guess" about a kid that they only saw for one week. Fortunately, the custody thing hasn't gone anywhere (at least not yet). We are with him every day and know the signs of depression very well. In fact, my dad has a master's in counseling - he definitely spends enough time with him to tell if there is a significant problem. Since all three of our children are of broken homes, we are very aware of what kinds of things to watch for and try to keep a close eye on them. Scooter, you spent a week with him - would you have been able to tell more about him from that limited time than his family, teachers, church leaders, etc.????

[scooter]

Scooter, you spent a week with him - would you have been able to tell more about him from that limited time than his family, teachers, church leaders, etc.????

Response: Absolutely not. However if he or any other child in my care said "I'm going to kill myself" I would be derelict in my responsibility if I did not:

1. Swiftly and sternly rebuke the child for saying it (even if it was in jest)

2. Inform the parents

How about if he said I'm going to kill YOU.

Even if he was playing, those words carry much wieght and the child should be taught so.

[Kenya]

Scooter, you spent a week with him - would you have been able to tell more about him from that limited time than his family, teachers, church leaders, etc.????

Response: Absolutely not. However if he or any other child in my care said "I'm going to kill myself" I would be derelict in my responsibility if I did not:

1. Swiftly and sternly rebuke the child for saying it (even if it was in jest)

2. Inform the parents

How about if he said I'm going to kill YOU.

Even if he was playing, those words carry much wieght and the child should be taught so.

Point made. Kids say a lot of dumb things. And I would scold him for saying something like that myself. But I would not automatically throw him in the category that these leaders did - just from observing a couple of strange things about him. He is strange sometimes. So are all the other kids in our youth group. It is a strange age. Just because someone says something dumb does not mean they should be labeled "depressed" and needing "deliverance". I have told Joey a couple of times in the last 8 months that "I just don't want to live anymore - I want to go "home". That doesn't mean that I need to be rushed to a psychiatrist or that I need "deliverance" from "oppression". It just means that I am feeling blue and need to work through it. And anyone who knows me well knows that I am very "up" most of the time - especially considering what I am going through right now. And that I work through stuff pretty well - and my source has come from God's word. From what I have witnessed and heard about deliverance ministries, they would have me "labeled" in a minute if they saw me on a down day.