College Football

[TC]

I guess I am old school. I miss the days when a coach and school were together for a good while. NOW every halfway decent coach jumps ship for the next best offer...Who cares about contracts, loyality or any thing else as long as you get your money.

Urban had the chance to be and ALL time hero at UTAH, He could have had the chance to be the BCS buster and win a title not in one of the big boy conferences. BUT he wanted to take the money and run. AND now that he is at FLA all he has to do is look at Ron Zook to see that if he doesn't do something in 3 or 4 years HE will be the NEXT one out of a job.

IT couldn't happen to a nicer program. I love it that Stevie boy was not a winner in the NFL, an I would love to see him be a failure at SC. IT would only be fitting for him to lose his job and take over a program even worst...SAY DUKE.... that way he could be a pain for FSU and Miami once again.

[dolfan]

I'm old school, too, on the coaches. We'll have to agree to disagree on Leak and the future of the spread option in the SEC. As for UT playing half a game vs. a whole good game ... man, I know the lyrics to that song. Bama has had that problem for a long time now (reference 2 close games in our down years with OU).

As for bend but don't break, I concede the point. First I'd ever heard it was in the 80's with Alabama. Others I knew had not either. But, hey, whoever invented the phrase, I don't like it and I certainly don't like bragging about it.

[TC]

HOW I was "taught" bend don't break you may get a few yards and maybe even a first down but you will not get all the way for a TD. YEP I know it was JV football but no one scored on us all year. My Sr Year we were state champs. We also had another line that we were told...WIN every PLAY, one play at a time. We were HARD NOSED.. (hey it was 82) but I don't think there was a game that we didn't get a Flag on the first play of the game. We were told on that first play you hit the guy in front of you so hard that he is scared to line up infront of you the next down.

I think leak is like TOO many other Qb's in the SEC, they are good but not going to make a real mark after college. IF the Option is well run it is a hard play to stop, the reason being it gives you most of the time one on one. If the QB can run he can get a good 5+ yards.

In todays football, you need to be able to do things people don't expect. Louisville has a runningback that was one of the most successful QB's in the state (turned down UT and OSU for Louisville) Louisville has a few good plays that they rarely use... Because they don't want people to expect them... Like a Pass from the back or a direct snap to the back. The option is the say way... IF you can do it at the right time you have a good shot but IF that is all you can do then you are in trouble because then you don't have the DBacks playing you honest. JUST like if you are down alot and little time MOST people KNOW that it will be a pass and not a run so the line can pin their ears back and go for the QB.

[Mole_J]

Me personally, I hate the bend but don't break type of defense. This maybe when my favorite teams have ran it, they always break I like an attacking defense, defensive lineman rushing the passer, people blitzing from different directions, just causing choas behind the line of scrimmage on offensive side, three and out type of defenses.

[dalebert]

Sorry Tenn fans..but UGA was a bit too much....

[Rob]

I guess I am old school. I miss the days when a coach and school were together for a good while. NOW every halfway decent coach jumps ship for the next best offer...Who cares about contracts, loyality or any thing else as long as you get your money.

TC - does this statement apply to Rick Pitino, your basketball coach? Especially the "halfway decent".

Urban started at at Bowling Green, from there to Utah and now to Florida. What is wrong with bettering yourself as a coach? He has won every where he has been. He never made a lateral move in my opinion but with each move he stepped up and won. He is playing with Zook's recruits, give him a few years to see what he does at Flordia.

As for Joe Pa, he has earned the right to leave when he wants. Give Joe Pa some love man, everyone has been down on him the last several years (including myself), I loved it last night, knocking off OSU (Sorry Dalebert) and when asked is Penn St. back, Joe Pa's response was priceless, "I'm not sure we ever left."

Love to see Penn St. run the table it will set up a great #2 game with VA Tech VS. Penn St. let's say at the Orange Bowl. Of course the Title Game will be Texas vs. USC in the Rose Bowl.

Rob

[TC]

TC - does this statement apply to Rick Pitino, your basketball coach? Especially the "halfway decent".

Well Rob this Is really about college football. When it comes to football coaches jump ship very quickly, (some because they can’t win, Others because they win.) Just look at LSU Saban was there for a few years and when ky ALMOST won a game, So many were either calling Saban a Joke for letting the game get so close, OR a genius for having a play to pull it out. Saban Wins and jumps to the pros. Tommy Tuberville was at Ole Miss for three years had an ok record (about 55%). He made the Jump to AU (who was 3-8 and last in the SEC WEST) He has been to bowl games all but His first year (I think) Yet a little over a year ago he was all but gone; AU even had people making secret trips to other schools trying to get a coach. It comes out and makes AU AD and boosters look like rats, Tubberville stays the next year THEY are 13-0 and IF they had not been so LOW in the polls to start the season they would have and should have played for a national title.

Joe Pa has had it rough the last few years, They have difficulty wining against fair teams at best. This year they are on a roll, what has changed? Was it the coach and coaching staff or the players, really it was the MIND SET of the players with a few good additions. I would LOVE to see Joe Pa take it to the rest of the country. THEN WALK OUT THE DOOR A WINNER.

Now you have teams that will gamble on a coach pay him the big bucks and if he does not go to a bowl in 3 years he is out, and IF he does then he is talking with other schools that are ready to fire their coach that has not gone to bowls the last three years. Ky got Hal and the pressure to win was so strong he cheated to win, the problem was he still didn’t win, they got an assistant to step up, He was not a great NAME but was taking the program to a new direction, He was making games competitive, YET they won’t pay him the big bucks because he is not a name. HE goes to Baylor as a STEP UP from KY. KY pays MORE money they the other guy wanted and they STILL LOSE.

I will not understand why the jump is always so great, especially if it is for money. AU came to Louisville and tried to hire our coach, He offered money that was not much more than what he was getting paid. At AU if he has 3 bad years (7-4, 6-5) he would be shown the door at AU, YET at Louisville most of the fans would be happy if your bad years are 7-4 or 6-5, as long as you throw in a 10-1 or 9-2 every once and a while. IS the 200k for 5 years (and 5 maybe all you will get) better than steady increases for just about as long as you would want to stay.

ON THE RICK PITINO THING… First he has proven he is better than a “HALFWAY DECENT” coach.

HE was at Ky for 8 seasons, He was successful at ky and wanted to prove he was a great coach at ANY level. He failed at that for several reasons, but the main reason is his lack of the motivation tool he has with his players...Getting them to play in the next level. Rick’s main draw his he gets kids to the next level, The want him to help make them pro players. Rick has said it was a mistake to leave “Kentucky” not UK, He realized that his life was better in the state of Kentucky. At uk he had the chance to make it a power like UCLA in their heyday. In Basketball the top programs in the Country have always been draws, Louisville is only one a handful of schools that have more than one championship, and that have been to the final four more than a time or two. AT the time that Rick was unemployed (coaching wise) there were a few schools that were open, UofL, Michigan, UCLA. Rick has said that it was a chance to regain the happiness he and his family felt while living in the state of Ky. He is making less money NOW then he did with the Celtics. IF it was all about the money he would have stayed and tried to turn it around.

I hate that college football coaches change every 4 to 5 years. It is now getting to the same point in college basketball. Gone are the days of a Joe Pa, John Wooden, Denny Crum. Gone are the days where a Coach and a school are loyal to each other. But I do think it is funny that People call Rick a traitor, Yet he didn’t leave one college and go a rival. They want to forget that Tubby left a SEC rival in GA to go to KY, that Demoss left UT to go to ky. Wouldn’t that make them traitors as well?

[Rob]

Wow Tony, you wrote so much I'm not really sure where to begin. I certainly did not nor had any intentions of hi-jacking this thread by throwing in about basketball. However, for the record, this Thursday, football season official ends for UK (football) fans (although Mid-Night Madness is not until Friday I believe).

I agree totally with your points of coaches and universities not being committed to each other. However, I think we will have to agree in the case of Urban it would be alot easier to get the blue-chip recruits to come to Gainsville, FL and not somewhere in the middle of Utah. Urban done great at Bowling Green and put them on the map, as well as doing a super job at Utah. But could he have had Utah year in and year out in a BCS bowl? The answer no one will really know, but in all likihood he wouldn't have. His chances of a BCS bowl in the SEC is a lot better, even if he doesn't win the conference championship. Saban has paid his dues as well (and for the record he is from my home county in West Virginia). He won at MSU and LSU. It remains to be seen how he will do at Miami.

AD's have normally went for a guy that has a proven track record for winning. Case in point, MSU when Saban left went after your own John L. Smith, and again he is doing a great job at MSU. Meyer has won every where he has been hence Florida went after him. USC and Spurrier, and the list goes on. However it is a shame when AU goes behind a coaches back and recruits a coach before they fire their own, or ND does not give a good coach like Willingham a fair shake. UNC and Dougherty, and the list goes on there as well. I'm glad the AD at Penn St. has not fired Joe Pa over the last few years and has stuck with him it is paying off this year. Maybe there is a lesson to learn there for other AD's.

Speaking of Joe Pa, his staff is nearly the same as it has been for years. What has changed at Penn St.? Joe has recruited players and is playing Freshman. Who would have thunk it? Joe rarely has played freshmen. He has nearly abandoned the I formation, and went to the spread offense. They are throwing the ball more. In a nutshell Joe Pa has finally joined the 21st Century College Football class and it is paying off for him. Go Joe Pa, beat Michigan this weekend. I'd love to see Penn St and VA Tech in the Orange Bowl that would be a great game. No way either one of those teams make the National Championship Game even if they do go undefeated. USC vs. Texas in the Rose Bowl.

As for Rick leaving UK making a brief stop in Boston then to UL. Techinally he did not leave one college job for another. You know as well as I there are very few (you and I included) that if you are a UL fan you root for UK except when they are playing UK or you root for UL when they are playing except when they are playing UK. For me personally I have another reason to root against UL they are in the Big East now and I'm a die hard WVU fan. (I hope the beat UL this weekend, in all liklihood that won't happen but I'll be rooting for the Mountaineers). So the love/hate relationship between UK-UL has transferred over to Rick. Some UK fans view it like this. Would Denny Crum ever left UL to come to UK? Would Dean Smith leave UNC to go to Duke? Would John Wooden leave UCLA and go to USC? Would Coach K leave Duke to go to UNC? The answer to most of those questions is we don't know, except for Coach K he never was considered for the UNC job, but in all liklihood none of those coaches would have done it.

Come on Tony you certainly don't believe that UGA is a rival of UK in basketball do you? Although in the SEC UK is nearly everyone's BIG game. So Tubby leaving UGA to come to UK is certainly not the same as Rick going to UL. Nor is Mickie DeMoss leaving UT AS AN ASSISTANT coming to UK as head coach a traitor. Now if Pat Summit had come I would give you that. But again that ain't happening either.

Any way, sorry to hi-jack the thread but I have enjoyed the dialogue.

Rob

[dolfan]

Now that UL is in a BCS conference, Petrino's defunct defection back to AU worked out well. Would've stunk all around if he'd gone to AU. I'm no Auburn fan, to be sure, but Tuberville deserved better than he got, and rubbed that fact in with last year's 13-0 run. And, my prediction is he'll come into the 'Bama game in a month without another loss. I just hope he leaves a plus 1 in the "L" column at the end of that day ... but we won't play that game until it gets here.

We've got Ole Miss this weekend. You cannot overlook the teams that you ought to win. Alabama lost to USF a couple of years ago and, last year, to Northern Illinois. Games that should've been won, but weren't. No one is beyond being beaten on any day. Things just happen. So, we better be ready to play Ole Miss this week with everything we've got. No matter the outcome, we don't play UT until 10/22, and hopefully the team won't even think about the Vols until an hour after the Ole Miss game. You play 'em one at a time, and you can only win 'em one at a time. If you look on another team with lust in your heart to beat 'em, you've already given up some ground to the one you're "married to" for the day, and that's the one you're playing.

Looks like UGA is in the SEC East driver's seat now, for sure. UT has 2 conference losses. AU and UGA have none. Since UGA and UF are the only East contenders with a game remaining against each other, LSU's route to Atlanta will have to be to spoil it for Georgia (TN having already beaten LSU) or make put UF out of reach (which an LSU win against them would do) and to absolutely win it on the field against Alabama and Auburn.

I think it is foolish to pick an SEC West winner yet, but odds are higher than not that the Iron Bowl will pick it, but Bama must beat LSU or UT in the process. Same for Auburn (must beat LSU or UGA). See, LSU is the key to getting there in the West.

The East is all but won by UGA already. Florida is still in the hunt, but Georgia is just solid.

[TC]

The problem at LPT (Lousiville Play toy) in football is that they either pay Hal tons of money, He cheats and makes them worst then when he got there. The only good point was that he brought Morris with him, Morris appeared to be an Up right guy, Brainfart did him wrong, Now they are paying for it. Morris at Baylor has won, and won without cheating. Baylor Beat a good Iowa St team, and I think this it was the first big12 road game that they have won in year (if ever) and the first conference game home or away in years... I think they are 4 and 1 which is great for Baylor. Would he have done that well at uk...Who knows but he couldn't be any worst than Grandpa brooks.

I think Urban can Win at FLA, but How much can he win. Zook was haveing problems on and off the field and they didn't thing twice about giving him the boot. The test will be can Urban will quick enough, and consistantly against the Miami, FSU and in the SEC to keep his Job. He will be compared to their IDOL stevie boy and until they get Stevie out of their mind. ANY coach will have problems there.

Yes AD's go after winners but the problem is they will steal from whoever no matter what the cost if it helps them. And John EL SMIFF is a perfect example of an AD not caring about anything but themselves. He contacted JLS less then 3 weeks into the season. They signed a deal 2 weeks before the season was over. JLS made them "promise" not to let anything come out until after UofL's Bowl game MSU "leaked" the story to a few Michigan papers the day before UofL's Bowl game.(it was supposed to head off any other teams from making him an offer and "stealing" him from MSU) . The team didn't know anything. THey found out from the fans that were booing JLS for how he handled things, There were fans telling the players and they were in shock. Espn asked him about it at half then he was forced to tell the team because that is all they were asking about it and not about the second half. I have no problem with him leaving, (it turned out the be the best thing for UofL, We got a better coach with a better attitude and a coach that makes all the players follow the rules) But I hate the way it was done. But what goes around comes around. JLS has several web sites wanting him fired. There was big rumors going around that IF he did not win this year he was OUT. But for the way he went about it, I will NEVER pull for JLS to win ever again. I would pull for uk before ANYTEAM that he is the coach.

The NCAA needs to make a few rules to protect teams from this mess every year. Jan 3 make all the changes you want but don't put this mess out there to when teams are getting ready for their bowl games.


I guess the Big East thing we see things differently. I never really liked or dislike WVA, I don't now. BUT NOW I have watched a few game that I would not normally have watched. I Will pull for ANY Big East team to win out of conference games. I pull for the one team to beat another if it will help Louisville in the conference. JUST like I do with the SEC... ( I don't pull for stevie boy or the kittens)

I know that there are SOME that say they pull for UofL and the kittens but I remember a scripture that says a double minded man is unstable in all his ways.. IF ky and Louisville both didn't have a Coach, I could see how then he might be called a traitor if he went to Louisville instead of uk. BUT that is not the case ONE JOB was open. He took the best Job that was open... There is not many times that one of the best college teams need a coach you have to jump, afterall our last one was here for 30 years. BUT to hear many of the little blue fans, Louisville is not that big a deal, as they as say their main rival if TN it goes back to the dark ages. It is fans that are just upset that Brainfart didn't fire Tubby and get Rick back.

When Tubby left GA, the cat fans were saying in basketball uk's rival was FLA and GA (afterall it was more important to win an SEC game) so that would Make Tubby and Billy D. So that would mean that uk fans are only upset about traitors when they leave not coming in. Just as a reminder when Tubby was rumored to be NBA bound the name everyone was talking about was BILLY DONAVAN... Wouldn't he be a traitor?

I was not real HIP on Rick coming to Louisville, YES he was and is a great coach but I hated his general Attitude. I remember him having to be on in the news at least twice a week during the offseason. I remember his first few months hear, He came out with this sheet of the things he wanted done at the game. From standing at specific points, doing specific things when we were at the line as well as when they were at the line. The First half of his first year I was ready for him to go. I noticed some small changes. THEN at the end of his first year I heard a speech where he said realized that at Louisville people wanted to win, expected to win but if they didn't they wouldn't go and and stand in the rain. He said he realized that he had made his whole life about the game, but after he lost his best friend /brother-in-law he realized that it was still just a game and life does not revolve around the game. THEN he started to enjoy the games, enjoy the practices. Yes he is just as intense during the games and practices but it is not 24/7 52 weeks a year. I guess once he mellowed I started to like him and I am happy he is here.

I have no doubt that he will hit the road in a few more years. (he says this will be his last Job) As long as we win a few Titles than I have no problem. uk fans need to quit living in the past (1950's plus as well as RP era) and be happy they have a coach that is one of the best in the country and not call for his head if he loses one specific game a year.

[Rob]

Tony, get your facts straight! Hal Mumme was NEVER found guilty of any wrong doings at UK, except that it happened on his watch. The man who was found guilty was Claude Bassett. Remember in America you are innocent until proven guilty. And in this case Hal was never guilty nor was he sanctioned by the NCAA! It happened on his watch yes, but that's all you can accuse him of.

Morris left UK of his own choosing. No one forced him out, he chose to leave. He has won at Baylor? What stats have you been reading? In '03 Morris 1st year they were 3-9 1-7 in the conference, in '04 Baylor was 3-8 and again 1-7 in the conference. This year they are 4-1, they have been SMU, I-AA Samford, Army, Lost to Texas A&M and finally won their first road Big XII game since the conference formed against Iowa St. That makes Morris thus far 10-18 in 2 1/2 years. I don't call that winning, nor would anyone else.

How much can Urban win? Well let's see he's 5-1 already this year. He beat UT something Zook had a difficult time doing. Speaking of Zook he was not a disciplinaian (sp). That's why the had on and off the field problems. He has a tough game this week at LSU and the next week the cocktail party against UGA. If he wins both of those games UF will play for the SEC championship. I'd say that's winning.

Welcome to the real world Tony, AD's "stealing" coaches. Businesses "stealing" employee's. Could it not be in some cases, not all, but in some a Coach in his mind is simply stepping up to the next level. Isn't that what makes America great. People have the opportunity to improve themselves and step up to the next level. What about conferences "stealing" teams to make their conference better. Case in point, the ACC "stealing" Miami, Va Tech, BC to make their conference better. It certainly helped them and will help them in football no longer FSU and the rest, but in didn't help them in Basketball.

Hence, Big East "stole" UL, Cinny, South Florida from C-USA for football and really dismantled C-USA in Basketball. I'm not sure the Big East helped themselves that much in Football, no offense to UL or the other two, but no of those schools are a Miami, Va Tech, or BC. However, IMHO there will not be a tougher basketball conference in the country than the Big East. UL, Cinny, Marquette, Depaul, along with UConn, Villanova, Georgetown, WVU, Providence, Seton Hall, etc., tough from top to bottom.

Tony, that's exactly what we need, the NCAA making more rules! Woo Hoo. What not make a rule to protect coaches who are bad coaches, or who may not work at a certain university to keep them from being fired? It's not going to happen, it's all about the money, make more money, get luxury suites at the stadium to make more money, get a corp. to sponor a stadium to make more money! It's all about the money.

BUT that is not the case ONE JOB was open. He took the best Job that was open. I know you are speaking of Rick on this case, but that could also be applied to Football coaches. Urban had the choice to pick between ND and UF and he took the best Job that was open! Saban had a pick between the Browns, and Dolphins and he took the best Job that was open. Normally that's what coaches do, they take the best Job that was open!

Tony, UGA has never been a "rival" of UK in basketball. It was only a "rival" when Tubby was there because of the connection between Tubby and Rick having been on Rick's staff at UK. As for Tubby leaving for the NBA not "everyone" that is a UK fan would like to see Billy D come to UK, myself for one, prays that Barnhart doesn't go after him IF Tubby leaves. This is one UK fan that doesn't want Rick back because the 8 years he was here we had to put up with "is he staying or is he going" year in and year out. I hope he doesn't do that to UL fans or the school or the recruits they don't deserve it.

I for one was not around during the "Rupp Era", however, like it or not, UK does have a storied program that we are proud of. Just like UCLA has a storied program, guess they should quit living in the "Wooden Era" also? Nothing wrong with being proud of your history, sometimes you can ever appreicate where you are until you realize where you have been.

Rob

[dolfan]

I'm for disbanding the NCAA, personally. But, that ain't happenin', so, no more rules!!

If you gotta have more rules about coaches, here's 2 for ya:

1. If, offenses occur at any program which result in sanctions, the head coach of said program may not be employed in any capacity in any athletic department at any other NCAA member university or college of the same or higher division, except the one in which the offenses occurred, for the period of the sanctions, plus 365 days.

2. No head coach shall be permitted to accept employment in any athletic department of any NCAA member university or college ("institution") other than the one in which he or she is currently employed, without first providing written notice of said coach's intent to make himself or herself available for employment away from said institution to the university or college at which he/she is employed, to all prospective student-athlete recruits, and to the board of trustees or regents for such institution, all of which notices shall be made available to the public by said institution within 7 days of each issuance thereof by said coach. In the event that a head coach negotiates, discusses or agrees to accept employment with any other institution contrary to the notice provisions set forth hereinabove, then every student athlete to whom an athletic scholarship is first offered, accepted and awarded during the 730 day period next immediately preceding the said head coach's acceptance of employment from any other institution shall be, without restriction, immediately free to search for, apply, discuss, commit to and accept athletic scholarships in any sport including any sport for which a scholarship was previously awarded, and to fully participate and compete in any such sport for any other institution without necessity of waiver of any type.

[Rob]

Dolfan,

I couldn't agree with you more. But I believe there will be a better chance of you know what freezing over before those rules would ever be agreed upon by coaches in the NCAA at any level.

Rob

[TC]

rob this is the rumors I heard yesterday and this morning...

I heard yesterday that Rich Brooks has either been fired or asked to resign prior to the South Carolina game. Insiders say that TTU Coach MIKE LEACH is the front runner for the job. Other candidates include Mike Price, Chris Hatcher of Valdosta St., Norm Chow, and Joe Glenn of Wyoming

I was told today that it has been confirmed that Brooks will not be the HC next season! More names: Bud Foster (Virginia Tech); Jack Bicknell (La Tech)

I also heard that Mitch Brainfart is trying to pull a michigan State and go in and steal another coach. I heard it was offered to one person but he wanted a HEAFTY buy out if he gets less than his contract.

[Rob]

Tony, here we are back to the same discussion we have been having this week. You know who this is really sad for in my opinion? The student athlete. He came to a school, in this case UK thinking he would be playing 4 years for coach Brooks, and now that is not the case at all. I heard this someone here I believe, and if not allow me to state it here.

If Coach Brooks is fired, resigns, leaves, etc., but is gone, every player he has recruited ought to have the option of being released from their scholarship and transfer if they choose to. Every recruit that has been signed but yet to step on campus in Lexington should have the same option. That might hinder some of this foolishness going on. Certainly won't stop it but may hinder it.

Out of all those names I'm not sure who I would like to see come. I know I would not like to see Price come that's for sure. Bud Foster has been with Frank Beamer for some 20 years, don't see him leaving VA Tech.

In all honesty, I'm not sure if there is a coach that could produce a winning team year in and year out in Lexington. Besides, football season offically ended yesterday. Probably one of the reasons all these rumors are coming out to attempt to keep some focus on the program. UK set an attendance record last night for Midnight Madness. Thank God just a few more weeks to round ball season.

Rob