Age of membership?

[scooter]

What do you think is a proper age for an individual to join a church as a member?

[Pastor Bill]

I think it really depends, I remember as a very young child being turned away from some things at church because I was too young, and at the time it hurt, and I look back at those things as mistakes on the part of the church.

At the same time we want some understanding of what they are doing, and it's importance. What age will they start taking something like that seriously? what age will they fully understand? (do we as adults fully understand?). I think it depends on the person. I would NOT say to wait till adults, because shutting out our young people won't help, but I'm probalby not going to take in a 3 year old either.

If they are seeking it, and you have a chance to talk to them explaining it, I don't know that there would be a minimum age. We have some adults who are less committed, and less serious about their walk with the Lord than some of the kids, age doesn't always mean improvement.

[rough_rider]

I think it really depends on there understanding, but for the most part 16 and up should be considered.

[scooter]

Do you think ages differing in say baptism?

[dbserv]

Do you think ages differing in say baptism?

I do. I think that baptism is a direct response to Christ's command and that once a child has accepted Christ, they should be taught about baptism. If they are taught what baptism means, it has been my experience that they are eager to have the world know of the change in their life and of their commitment to Christ.


However, joining a particular church to me denotes that a person has reached a point that they want to make a commitment to a particular group of people and be an active member of that group. I think that it varies by person, but I chose the option that puts them in their teens first. Our local church asks that kids wait until they are 16 to become members. I don't think they need to be that old, but 12 or 13 is probably best.


We don't make a big thing about membership, except for once a year when we elect our church board and the various ministry boards. At that time, only members can vote, under the rules of the Naz. denomination. The rest of the year, we hold membership classes once a month and make that available. When the announcements are made (for the classes), they always encourage people to consider making that commitment because we humans tend to be more accountable if we "join" something as opposed to just attending.

[dolfan]

I think 7 is fine, personally. Kids perform a number of rites and ceremonies at that age. Kindergarten 'graduation'. Clubs get joined, like Boy Scouts. They are in school and are learning about groups and their importance. Given all the other bases are covered (parental leadership, pastoral interaction, assurance of age-appropriate understanding, etc.), why not?

[Pastor Bill]

One other thing is why they are joining. I really hadn't thought some things through on this, some of you may consider membership as "voting rights" and in that I could understand waiting till a later age, since a young child is in many cases going to be just an extra vote for Mom and Dad.

I would not withhold membership from a child who sought it themselves, and understood it, but I don't know that I would extend the same child as much voice in the decision making of the church.

but honestly when it comes to membership I just can't see turning someone away who is seeking God, and Christ even specifically mentioned letting the children come, I don't want to do anything to turn them away.

[dolfan]

One other thing is why they are joining. I really hadn't thought some things through on this, some of you may consider membership as "voting rights" and in that I could understand waiting till a later age, since a young child is in many cases going to be just an extra vote for Mom and Dad.

I would not withhold membership from a child who sought it themselves, and understood it, but I don't know that I would extend the same child as much voice in the decision making of the church.

but honestly when it comes to membership I just can't see turning someone away who is seeking God, and Christ even specifically mentioned letting the children come, I don't want to do anything to turn them away.

We don't allow a vote by anyone under 16. You can be a member, but, come on. As a rule, you're not going to have the ability to grasp the seriousness of issues and the impact of decisions, really even at 16. But, it seems a well enough place to draw the line.

[rspastor]

I absolutely agree that it benefits a child to take part in any spiritual experience in the church (i.e. communion, feet washing, baptism, and joining the church.) These events can help shape a child and bring them into greater knowledge of God.

However, when it comes to taking part in a business conference a child's voice should always be silenced. I believe this view would be backed up legally in that a child does not have the mental capacity to understand the intricacies (forgive me if my spelling is wrong ) of business. I have understood this to always be the practice of the church. If I'm wrong please correct me.

Again, Jesus told us to not forbid children. In anything that will have a spiritual impact they should be actively engaged. Business is rarely spiritual. The way some business meetings go I think it would better for the child to not be present. Disputing and UnChrist-like attitudes could turn a child's heart away from God...It certainly has many adults, IMHO.

[RamboPreacher]

...joining a particular church to me denotes that a person has reached a point that they want to make a commitment to a particular group of people and be an active member of that group. I think that it varies by person...

May vote was depends. I think it is a very individual thing and is something that is some time subsequent to accepting the gift of salvation.

I probably have a bit of a different view on "the church", as many, though. For me (and in my studies of the Bible and scripture), I believe that at the moment a person accepts Christ as their savior and is "saved", they are at that point - part of Christs "body" and "bride" - "the church".

belonging to or being a member of a local church, I believe has a couple levels (at least) - a local church member is one that attends faithfully and (hopefully) pays tithe to that local church. - they can participate in business meetings of that local congregation.

The other part/area of "membership" is if a person wants to belong to the church denomination - this is an "on the books" membership. Different than being a local church member, these can vote on particluar business issues that are taken to the GA as those items arise.

With the last GA change in regads to membership, more of the people that considerd themselves members of the local church can now be on the books members.

However, when it comes to taking part in a business conference a child's voice should always be silenced. I believe this view would be backed up legally in that a child does not have the mental capacity to understand the intricacies (forgive me if my spelling is wrong ) of business. I have understood this to always be the practice of the church. If I'm wrong please correct me.

We don't allow a vote by anyone under 16. You can be a member, but, come on. As a rule, you're not going to have the ability to grasp the seriousness of issues and the impact of decisions, really even at 16. But, it seems a well enough place to draw the line.

Maybe semantecs here, but I am going to respectfully disagree with these. Again, it depends. I have known some very spiritual and mature young teenagers. I personally will not draw absolute lines in the sand based on anything, in this case - age. To me, it is judging them as a whole, when there could be some that would fall outside that stereotype.

In fact,and the reverse, I know of some people that are much older that do not have a clue what they are voting on or about, but because they are "old enough" they get to vote.

just my 2 cents.

[dolfan]

We don't allow a vote by anyone under 16. You can be a member, but, come on. As a rule, you're not going to have the ability to grasp the seriousness of issues and the impact of decisions, really even at 16. But, it seems a well enough place to draw the line.

Maybe semantecs here, but I am going to respectfully disagree with these. Again, it depends. I have known some very spiritual and mature young teenagers. I personally will not draw absolute lines in the sand based on anything, in this case - age. To me, it is judging them as a whole, when there could be some that would fall outside that stereotype.

In fact,and the reverse, I know of some people that are much older that do not have a clue what they are voting on or about, but because they are "old enough" they get to vote.

just my 2 cents.

You're not really disagreeing!! I get your point, and it is a good one. But, it becomes very and unnecessarily problematic to carve out some, say, 16 year olds as being eligible to vote on church business while excluding others under a general rule. For that matter, the opposite approach would be just as messy. So, you draw a line somewhere and say, "This is our bright line rule." One thing to remember is that you know that rule is there when you decide to formally become a member. If that rule is a deal-breaker for membership, then a deeper issue is at work somewhere.

[Pastor Bill]

Please don't get me wrong, I am not saying children should be given a vote, although on some issues I don't think it would be inappropriate to let them have a voice.

But I will say this, I don't like the idea of different "levels" of membership, we are all together the body of Christ, we are together as members, one shouldn't be held above another, other than assigned leadership, and thats a different situation.

[dolfan]

Please don't get me wrong, I am not saying children should be given a vote, although on some issues I don't think it would be inappropriate to let them have a voice.

But I will say this, I don't like the idea of different "levels" of membership, we are all together the body of Christ, we are together as members, one shouldn't be held above another, other than assigned leadership, and thats a different situation.

We do have two classes of membership, voting and non-voting. I don't see where making the distinction here makes us any less together and it isn't an issue of authority at all. It is simply a practical decision based on the weight of common experience, much the same type of experience that informs us that 15 year olds shouldn't be allowed to drive without direct, present supervision by a licensed driver. These folks are fully invited and included in all parts of our business meeting worship. The ideal would be that enough clear expression to the matters on the agenda would be both announced in advance so that family discussion could happen, and also that sufficient clarity is given at the time of the business at hand to give a basic overview. There is nothing to keep an under 16 member from expressing himself or herself in the meeting. The actual casting of the vote, however, is not going to provide enough additional experience in that circumstance to cause the maturity of the teen to escalate into that area of adulthood where we normally assign and assume adult responsibility. So, in short, the under-16's can do everything except cast an actual vote because common experience informs us that, again -- as a rule to which there are anecdotal exceptions but those exceptions are not appreciably significant to justify changing the rule, they are substantially unlikely to possess the necessary experience and insight into the impact of the decisions to be made.

Keep in mind, too, that for our particular local church, we are not a congregational government. We are elder governed. You know that coming in. The only matters that members vote on with an actual vote are incurring new debt, purchasing or selling real property, and the calling of a senior pastor. Members' vote to merely express affirmation of the annual budget and the appointment of "lay pastors" (deacons) and elders, but the vote is not even tallied nor is a tally required by our constitution and bylaws on those matters. All other business matters are up to the elders, constitutionally. Again, given these parameters, while 16 year olds may indeed have enough maturity to vote on the style of flooring to put in the Sunday School rooms, they are not going to have any meaningful background with finance and personnel to justify giving them a vote in business-as-we-do-it.

[Pastor Chip]

I think membership should be open only to children between the ages of say 6 and 12. I mean, lets face the facts: thats about the age many members of the church act like they are anyway. Kids are fun, but it stops being funny when the 6 year old has the body of a 60 year old.

[Pastor Bill]

Dolfan, let me see if I understood correctly, I understand and agree on the under 16 not voting, but do participate thing.

I was confused a little on the two classes thing, do you have members that can't vote other than kids, or is this one class for the under 16 group, and one for the older?