Uh Oh Pastors gone again.

[rough_rider]

Now theres some words I don't like much, "paid to do", "allowed" "approved by".

Those words (maybe wording) reeks of puppetpastor.

[Pastor Gary]

You stay in Kentucky. I don't want any members who think like you!

I am so jealous of my pulpit I hardly let ANYone preach, and I WANT to be in my pulpit 48-50 Sundays a year. I Direct Senior Camp in Hawaii and preach the Sunday it starts and the Sunday after it ends; I go to major conferences and preach the morning after I return. I came back early from the Assembly in '02 and left my family at Grandma's in Alabama so I would only miss two weekends in a row.

It is about 8:00 PM on Saturday night. I have been at my desk since 9 this morning counseling and rewriting parts of my sermon.

My study, prayer, prep and tech prep (video clips and PowerPoint prep) time weekly exceeds 30 hours. My office is attached to my home, which is attached to the Church -- There are often people here from early morning until (sometimes) after midnight. There was a Youth Service here last night... office full of teens late and some in my living room. There were TWO Adventist church services here today --parking lot and facility full of people + some men from my church working on repairs; Now the worship team + several teens are here and will be here til 10 or 11 PM. The first people will arrive for set-up and hospitality at 8:AM in the morning. As soon as our service ends, a Korean congregation arrives and will be here til 4:00.

It seems to bever end.

My "off day" is Monday. HA! Once everyone discovered we like to stay home and rest on Mondays, they knew they could catch me here "for just a minute." We have an extension of the church phone in our dining room AND the bedroom. It rings at all hours.

If you call it and get the voice mail, you can press "0" to transfer to my cell in an emergency. Want to hear what some folks think is an emergency?

"Hey, do you have Larry's cell number?"
"Hey, is Joey over there right now?"
"Can you go in the church and see if Betty left her blue jacket?"

Only a Pastor knows what the life of a Pastor entails.

[Joey]

You stay in Kentucky. I don't want any members who think like you!

Hey! He (scooter) moved to Florida and developed that mindset. He doesn't even live here anymore. Don't think we all believe that way.

I am so jealous of my pulpit I hardly let ANYone preach, and I WANT to be in my pulpit 48-50 Sundays a year.

That's the way we feel at our church. Our Pastor and I (as the youth pastor) have a hard time offering the pulpit for just any someone to come in and take it light heartedly.

My study, prayer, prep and tech prep (video clips and PowerPoint prep) time weekly exceeds 30 hours. It seems to never end.

That's where the pay comes in too. A Pastor that 'feeds' a congregation, as well as serves as their biblical council during life's many crisis' can not be expected to serve without compensation for his time.

[Shellie]

Why not? (And I mean nothing by this other than just asking a question) Do you think pastors should work for free, especially one of a church with, oh, I don't know...50+ members? Isn't a man worthy of his hire?

scooter's emphasis was on the "control" of the pastor because he is paid, not that he was paid.

Not all Pastor's, (in my experienced opinion) get paid according to the work load. They get paid according to what the church can afford. Because of this, many, many, pastors stay because of their calling and love for the ministry not for their paycheck.

TC's view of being able to control the pastor because of the paycheck reminds me of an old member we USED (thank God) to have. He felt that because he paid tithes that he should have the say about what he got to do in the church.

You can't run the church like a business. It doesn't work that way. Yes, the pastor should be held accountable by his board and his people. Gross acts of negligence should be called into question. However, TC, if you wish to view the church as a workplace than perhaps some things should change.

1.) Pastor and family get full medical insurance including dental, eye and prescription care. Should pastor get injured or sick for any reason, his job must be held for a certain amount of time instead of just putting another pastor in.

2.) Pastor gets two full days off from work every single week. This means NO phone calls such as Pastor Gary mentioned. He does not even need to be able to be reached.

3.) Pastor only has to work 40 hours each week. If he works over, he gets paid time and a half.

4.) Pastor gets to fire you, as a member, when you neglect to pay all tithes and neglect one single offering plate as it passes. After all, what supervisor would keep an employee that neglected to give his absolute all every chance he got?

5.) Since the pastor would be considered supervisor and members would be considered employees, we should expect you to show up every single service, event, prayer meeting, and etc........... I mean after all, who'd keep an employee that just didn't show up some days because whatever reason........................

6.) If the workplace started taking the pastor away from his children and family time, (family time.........what a joke in itself), then you'd have the option of hiring an assistant. The assistant should also get full pay and benefits such as mentioned above.

7.) All "business" trips should be 100% paid for, right down to the last cup of coffee.

Need I go on? You get the picture. The church is not a business. God signs our paycheck, not the church. If we are failing to "put our time in", trust me, God will let us know.

Somebody that has never pastored has no "earthly" (pun fully intended) idea what a pastor actually does on the job. Most members think that he shows up a couple of times a week and speaks for 30 minutes.

They have no clue.........................................

[Gerald Creasy]

if you wish to view the church as a workplace than perhaps some things should change.

1.) Pastor and family get full medical insurance including dental, eye and prescription care. Should pastor get injured or sick for any reason, his job must be held for a certain amount of time instead of just putting another pastor in.

2.) Pastor gets two full days off from work every single week. This means NO phone calls such as Pastor Gary mentioned. He does not even need to be able to be reached.

3.) Pastor only has to work 40 hours each week. If he works over, he gets paid time and a half.



Somebody that has never pastored has no "earthly" (pun fully intended) idea what a pastor actually does on the job. Most members thinks that he shows up a couple of times a week and speaks for 30 minutes.

They have no clue.........................................

EXACTLY!!!!

Even living in a Pastors home dosent give you the full picture. Being awakend at 2 am by someone who expects you to be there because they show up occasionally and put a couple of dollars in the plate.

Ministers (in the COGOP organization especially) are vastly overworked and grossely undercompensated.

I'm still planning slave reparations because I was forced child slave labor to clean up after the pigs attended "District Convention" at my fathers church.

Who cleans up? The district? No?

The members? No.

The Pastor? No, not by himself.

The Pastor and his whole family down to the littlest one, at times.

Non-Pastors or Non-pastor familes HAVE NO CLUE.



(Oh yeah, things have changed now. Sure sure)

[scooter]

Hey! He (scooter) moved to Florida and developed that mindset. He doesn't even live here anymore. Don't think we all believe that way.

Response: Joey I thought he was talking about TC, but maybe he can clarify.

Believe what way? Please clarify.

[Joey]

Joey, I thought he was talking about TC, but maybe he can clarify.

Believe what way? Please clarify.

Oh, maybe you are right about TC....Pastor Gary can say.
And on that last line,...I was just refering to the way you seemed to be coming off at first, but after reading your better half's description, it appears that we feel the same way on this subject. I have the upmost respect for our COGOP pastor's and wish they could all be at a limit paying church and have plenty of help (as Gerald hinted at) rather than carrying a majority of the load.
As the old saying goes, 90% of the church work seems to get done by the same 10% of the congregation. Many times, that 10% is the Pastors family and himself. It's exhasting, but rewarding.
One of the hardest parts about being a pastor seems to be not being able to plan much ahead of schedule.
As I mentioned before, our pastor stayed behind from a wedding this weekend, and thank goodness he did. A dear elder sister of the church just passed on to glory and our pastor was needed last night (11:00pm) and this morning (8:00am) with that family.

[TC]

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[TC]

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[scooter]

Man have I got it good. I love my people and my people love me.

I think there is a problem when you take the whole member control vs. pastor control and run it to an extreme in either direction.

I also think there is a difference in a true shepherd and a hireling.

I guess I have a problem with the thinking that the sheep control the shepherd.

[TC]

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[Joey]

... I don't think Joey is getting paid for the work (in church) he does

True TC, our church barely has enough to pay a decent income to our pastor, but the Lord supplies where I can not see....so as far as not getting paid, maybe not in money, but we sure are blessed.

IF your day off is monday and you don't want to take calls ..... ask them not to call...call Bro or Sis Jones or who ever....they are not expected to study for a sermon, go to the hospital at midnight, or work with a member in need.

Whoa TC! This was out there! I can not believe you actually think this way. To be Christ like is a pastor's first call. Can you imagine them coming for Jesus on a monday and Jesus saying "I'm sorry, Monday is not good for me, can we do that healing the sick thing later. I'm having some me time right now."
Being a pastor has some drawbacks when it comes to time, but to cut the congregation off on a certain day is just plain wrong.
Remember when Jesus questioned the legalists as He asked, "What man looses a sheep on a Sunday and doesn't go after it?" speaking of the sabbath and not working.
Just rethink your statement here TC, because by the time your shepherd gets around to it after his Monday break, the sheep may be gone for ever.

[Pastor Bill]

Well, I have read all these things, and I have to say, most of the frustration I am hearing from TC I have heard before, BUT very seldom have I seen it justified.

One of the reasons many are upset by this is way too often people don't see everything a Pastor does, or consider his personal needs.

I get the impression TC is talking about pastors really abusing things, and not just taking a Sunday off a time or two per year. If the pastor is not doing the work of a pastor, then yes he should be held accountable, but sometimes that work can allow for missing a service (although I don't think this should be often)

Myself I work 40 hours per week, and commute another 10 in order to live closer to the church, I get 3 weeks vacation from my "day job") and have spent a good deal of that for times when I was needed at the church, or away for church buisness (GA, State Convention, etc.). I have taken a couple of Sundays away for travelling out of town with my family, and don't see anything wrong with that, a minister in the church, or someone invited in covers the service while I am away, and I always have my cell phone in case anyone needs me. I don't do this often, and when I do the church supports me in taking a little time.

Personally I don't like to be away, but do have obligations to my family as well, and believe God does hold me accountable for those as well.

I think the biggest problem I see in this discussion (outside of pastors abusing this type of thing) is that we are WAY too focused on pastors in the work of the church. The church should NOT be that dependant on the pastor, members need to be able to minister one to another, the body is much more than just the pastor.

The times I have felt the greatest satisfaction as a pastor are the times when God has allowed me to step back for a moment and watch the church be the church. In our last revival the greatest service we had I played piano, and wasn't really involved in much of the ministry, but the Church itself was working.

In another thread someone mentioned getting tired of church, and that they had to just remember they aren't there for the people, but just to worship God, I thought how ironic that statement was but didn't comment. I thought the main purpose of the church was serving people as Christ had shown us to. We can worship at home, we can spend time with God at home, it doesn't take a worship band and great song leader. We need to be more focused on service and less on what blessings we are receiving.

[Paully_44]

I just had a question for you pastors and attenders.

Is it okay with you?

Does the situation vary?

How many is too many?

Your opinions welcome.

personally, I have no problem with a pastor missing a few sunday's here and there. At our church, our pastor's health has not been the best as his kidney's are failing him. There have been times when he just wasn't strong enough to get up and preach and that is when someone else would be called upon to deliver words of encouragement. I am not a preacher and don't preach, however I do get up front and deliver words of encouragement.

I actually think it says wonders about a local body whose pastor has the freedom to go out of town or take a much needed break and the church continues on.

[TC]

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