Urge to Merge?

[jklapp]

I say Amen and Hallelujah to a merger... Why? Because we know God responds positive to unity.

Unity at any cost? Let's make a list ofall the groups we can also merge with and have LOTS of unity!

"Can two walk together, except they be agreed?"
Amos 3:3

Amos 3:3 is a great scripture, and I agree with it... But does it mean we have to be in absolute agreement with every single issue before a union is made? Paul wrote:

2 Corinthians 6:14-15 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

Now Paul is referring to people who have beliefs that are completely different... (as in night and day)... Church of God, Church of God of Prophecy, The Church of God, and etc, have differences but they are not night and day differences... If we agree on the major issues, then why should we sweat the minor ones? Sure, we can focus on the minor issues and let them tear our churches apart... Or should we focus on the major issues like spreading the good news and saving souls?

The original topic was concerning a COG/COGOP merger... I think we all can agree the Church of God and the Church of God of Prophecy is a house divided.... When we look at the problems the Church faces (and they are many) let's remember the words spoken by our Lord Jesus.

Mark 3:25 ... if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand.

Division destroys, Unity creates... When the Tower of Babel was being built, look at the words the Lord spoke.

Genesis 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

Now imagine what would happen if God's people united together.

God Bless,
John

[jdavis]

I understand and respect your position.

I also know we are struggling for enough pastors in our area, while in the CoG there are ministers who would be glad to serve, but the only opportunity for them is to go down the street from another CoG and try to start a new work.

I hope what you say about COG ministers is true but I have a feeling that most of them who are not in full time ministry would not go anywhere that required them packing up and moving to a different state or region to pastor a small struggling congregation.
The same goes for COGOP ministers sitting in a local church.
We have churches in our region that have closed down because we had no one to go. But the minute book is full of liscensed ministers!

john

[Blended]

Don't really want to enter this debate but maybe I just need to vent a little

it has been said and is true the COGOP would cease to exist in a "merger"

Also the COG is a very political and cannibalistic society.
They close their own churches on a whim to add to their state coffers or to discipline a church or pastor. That being the case most state overseers would close any church that would benefit them financially and the pastors would be out of luck. Even more so than the COGOP's current leadership , and you may pick up on my ire here, they are more concerned with property and finances than expanding the Kingdom of God this is why they too are in decline in the United States.

Those in HQ that think a seat on the council or a Jr. or honorary GO of a subset church like COGOP will last last long after the "transition are in delusion.

Blended

[jdavis]

Don't really want to enter this debate but maybe I just need to vent a little

it has been said and is true the COGOP would cease to exist in a "merger"

Also the COG is a very political and cannibalistic society.
They close their own churches on a whim to add to their state coffers or to discipline a church or pastor. That being the case most state overseers would close any church that would benefit them financially and the pastors would be out of luck. Even more so than the COGOP's current leadership , and you may pick up on my ire here, they are more concerned with property and finances than expanding the Kingdom of God this is why they too are in decline in the United States.

Those in HQ that think a seat on the council or a Jr. or honorary GO of a subset church like COGOP will last last long after the "transition are in delusion.

Blended

Thank You!

[dolfan]

Exhibits A through whatever, above. If this kind of division between some average, good-hearted, sane and common sense people exists about merger, how much deeper and wider would it be throughout the COGOP alone. The axes ground in 1923 haven't been altogether buried 83 years later. Looks to me like somebody's ready to sharpen 'em back up. I don't have a dog in the race, but seems to me like it would be a bad idea to try it.

[ImaPK]

Exhibits A through whatever, above. If this kind of division between some average, good-hearted, sane and common sense people exists about merger, how much deeper and wider would it be throughout the COGOP alone. The axes ground in 1923 haven't been altogether buried 83 years later. Looks to me like somebody's ready to sharpen 'em back up. I don't have a dog in the race, but seems to me like it would be a bad idea to try it.

I, like you, have no dog in this race but I agree 100% with what you just said

[jdavis]

some average, good-hearted, sane and common sense people

Thanks for the compliment!

john

[lady4jc]

This is my opinion .. I am not a pastor far from it so I didnt vote. But I would love to see Cog and Cogop merge together. When I was first saved I joined cogop but later when I moved to WV ended up in Cog. Really I dont see too much difference in the 2 churches.
I believe if we cant get along here on earth how are we going to get along in heaven. We all need to come together as a church not a Church of God or Church of God of Prophecy .. but a church that God is looking for one without spot or blemish. We need to come together in unity. Jesus prayed that we come together in unity and I believe God will be pleased when Jesus' prayer is answered and It will be cause whatever Jesus prays will happen.
Anyway that is my thoughts..

[Kevin]

Really I dont see too much difference in the 2 churches.

That depends on where you are. I can see pros and cons in this region. The combined organizations will reach more different kinds of people, but we have completely different worship styles and many are not willing to change those styles even for regional meetings. Worst case scenario some would even prefer to disassociate themselves from an organization and it's stigma rather than hurt the work that is in full progress. I can't blame them either. I can see either shock or rolling eyes now. Great people, just different. And the current work could in fact be impacted in the long run. Best case scenario would be a more established organization with resources able to provide for exponential growth. Give or take. I think it'll be a little of both depending on where you are.

That comes from a non-pastor who also did not vote.

[lady4jc]

The combined organizations will reach more different kinds of people, but we have completely different worship styles and many are not willing to change those styles even for regional meetings.

That is the problem many arent willing to change. The message of the gospel is still the same. But it does take change to reach the lost. Whatever it takes we need to do it and do it soon. The way this world looks today it not going to be long till Jesus comes. So if we are to reach those that are lost and bring them into the church we have to do it now. Like my pastor once said get them in get them saved no matter what. If we have to change to do so go for it. But get them in and then let Jesus clean them up.
That again is my 2 cents.

[Pastor Bill]

I hope what you say about COG ministers is true but I have a feeling that most of them who are not in full time ministry would not go anywhere that required them packing up and moving to a different state or region to pastor a small struggling congregation.
The same goes for COGOP ministers sitting in a local church.
We have churches in our region that have closed down because we had no one to go. But the minute book is full of liscensed ministers!

john

That's true of both churches, BUT, the COG is a much larger organization, and in our area, as well as many others, I'll bet there is a greater chance of having someone available if we were working together.

Personally I was a CoG minister who packed up and moved to go pastor a struggling CoGoP, and I had to drop the work I had done towards licensing in the CoG and start over in the CoGoP to do it. At the same time I know of some in the CoG who are/have felt called to pastor, and the only option was to start a new church somewhere, while existing CoGoPs in the same areas go without.

[Pastor Bill]

Blended,

I can say that what you describe is not what I experienced in the CoG, as a matter of fact, I have heard worse stories of it that type of things happening in the CoGoP where opposing factions are in disagreement, and splits are occuring.

I'm not saying there aren't politics involved, but that's no different than CoGoP.

[Pastor Bill]

Really I dont see too much difference in the 2 churches.

That depends on where you are. I can see pros and cons in this region. The combined organizations will reach more different kinds of people, but we have completely different worship styles and many are not willing to change those styles even for regional meetings. Worst case scenario some would even prefer to disassociate themselves from an organization and it's stigma rather than hurt the work that is in full progress. I can't blame them either. I can see either shock or rolling eyes now. Great people, just different. And the current work could in fact be impacted in the long run. Best case scenario would be a more established organization with resources able to provide for exponential growth. Give or take. I think it'll be a little of both depending on where you are.

That comes from a non-pastor who also did not vote.

Worship styles vary from church to church in both organizations. Combining international offices wouldn't change that, and it shouldn't. I can take you to CoGs within a few miles of each other that are night and day differences in style, and I can with CoGoPs too.