Takin' the Youth to hOOters

[scooter]

Lord you know I don't ask much for myself but could I be considered for the patron saint of the hooters?

[Sherry]

God -- please touch our hard hearts and help us to see people through eyes of grace and not judgement. Make us the kind of Christians, the kind of church that would dare to throw a birthday party for a prostitute at 3 o'clock in the morning. That YOUR name may be glorified!

AMEN!!!!!

[DeWayneTN]

Lord you know I don't ask much for myself but could I be considered for the patron saint of the hooters?

LOL!!!

[scooter]

Lord you know I don't ask much for myself but could I be considered for the patron saint of the hooters?

LOL!!!

Response: It is a humble work but someone must sacrifice to save those women!

[ImaPK]

When I walked through the door I was surrounded by "cheap sl**ts".

Altenative explanation: "When I walked through the door I was surrounded by naive young women who Jesus bled and died for.".

Don't get me wrong, I know they don't serve up sex per se (though many probably do after hours) but they do alot for their tips I'm sure.

Altenative explanation: Don't get me wrong, I know they don't serve up sex per se (though in my mind I could imagine that many probably do after hours, as if a woman who has lugged trays of food and drink all day to earn a living has the energy for after-hours activity) but they do alot for their tips I'm sure -- like putting up with jerky, rude hyper-religious customers who look down their noses at them and pass judgement with no knowledge.

Danny, you would no-doubt find Tony Campolo a flaming liberal, and perhaps even question his salvation, but I present this illustration I have used in sermons before for your consideration:

Tony Campolo, a Christian sociologist and evangelist tells of a time when he had a speaking engagement in Honolulu. Because of jet lag, he found himself up at 3 A.M. and went to find something to eat. He wound up at a sleazy diner in Waikiki.

After a few minutes the place filled up with a group of prostitutes. They were noisy, provocatively dressed, and crude. He overheard a conversation between two of them. One of them said, "Tomorrow is my birthday. I'm going to be thirty-nine years old." Her companion responded, "So what do you want from me. A party? You want me to get you a cake and sing 'Happy Birthday'"? "No, but why do you have to be so mean? I don't expect a party. I've never had one before, why should I have one now.?"

At that moment Campolo made a decision. He would throw a party for her the next night. He got the manager of the diner to cooperate, decorated the place and bought a cake. The word quietly spread through the streets from prostitute to prostitute. As the woman, Agnes, came in that next night the diner was packed with hookers, and Campolo had everyone ready to say "Happy Birthday!" When it happened, her mouth fell open and she became so shaky that they thought she was going to faint.

When the birthday cake came out, she was crying so hard that she couldn't even blow out the candles. She asked them if they would allow her to take the cake home so that she could show it to others; it was her first birthday cake. She promised to return quickly. In the time that Agnes was gone, Campolo asked them if he could lead them in a prayer for Agnes. He prayed that God's goodness would touch her, that her life would be changed, that she would know Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. It was a strange scene: a Christian sociologist leading prayer for a bunch of prostitutes at 3 o'clock in the morning.

When he was finished, the manager said, "You never told me you were a preacher. What kind of church do you belong to? " Campolo replied, "A church that throws birthday parties for prostitutes at 3 o'clock in the morning." The man replied, "No you don't. There is no church like that. If there were, I would join it."

God -- please touch our hard hearts and help us to see people through eyes of grace and not judgement. Make us the kind of Christians, the kind of church that would dare to throw a birthday party for a prostitute at 3 o'clock in the morning. That YOUR name may be glorified!

Now PG, you know that there are those who would rather judge, form an opinion, and then stick to that opinion then even try to understand what grace is all about...firm believers in the old saying "If it walks like a slut and acts like a slut it must be a slut", even though that slut is someone's sister or cousin and could have been abused or turned out on the street by her family or had to quit school because some guy "knocked her up"...you know what amazes me about some people-so called Christians-is that they skip over the part about Jesus "hanging" with the "scum of the Earth" while pointing out that he ran the moneychangers out of the Temple

[DeWayneTN]

Response: It is a humble work but someone must sacrifice to save those women!

It brings tears to my eyes to see such unprecedented levels of self-sacrifice and humility.

[Pastor Gary]

you know what amazes me about some people-so called Christians-is that they skip over the part about Jesus "hanging" with the "scum of the Earth" while pointing out that he ran the moneychangers out of the Temple

There is a church in Denver named Scum of the Earth.

[mykidzdad]

I agree, its not the amount of skin, its the motives.

I think King David wore less clothes than a Hooters girl when he danced before the Lord. When you read that passage, what do you think of his wife who mocks him? You think she's a judgemental fuddy duddy who doesn't understand.

Steve, I love you man, and, if you don't want to take your family swimming because you might see a woman's thigh, then by all means
don't do it. Not everyone agrees though.

Swimming vs Hooters is apples vs billygoats dude..

though i will concede that it all has to do with motives and supervision

I'd rather my son go to a prayer meeting in a Hooters than an unsupervised coed swim party with kids I don't know.

[Paully_44]

Lord you know I don't ask much for myself but could I be considered for the patron saint of the hooters?

What will your pennant look like and where can I buy one?

I'll wear it proudly the next time I am eating wings at the local "Owl" establishment.

[dolfan]

FQ, if all girls who work at Hooters are "cheap sl**ts", are all parents who won't let their kids see a doctor when they're sick "child abusers"?

Oh, wait, no, because you've holy-fied no doctors/no medicine as "depending on God in faith for healing". Well, do we also blame God for the Hooters servers "depending on Hooters for a paycheck"? No, but I see more of Jesus in a busty blonde with a tight T-shirt slinging wings and longnecks with a positive attitude than in judgmentalism that looks on the outward appearance and whose first impulse is to equate a simple waitress with a prostitute.

[scooter]

to equate a simple waitress with a prostitute.

Response: A simple waitress? That is a stretch for arguments sake.

I'm sure there are many Godly women working at hooters.

Let's not confuse the issue of a hooters waitress being a prospective soul to be saved and a position of honor.

[mercy]

This response is really directed toward Poimen. However, I would like to say that I enjoyed PG's post regarding Campolo.

Poimen, I have a beautiful 7 yr old little girl who swims, competitively, for the second largest swim team in North Carolina. She practices 4 days a weeks for about two hours each practice. She wears a swimsuit to each and every practice and each and every competition. The team consists of children as young as 6 and as old as 18, both boys and girls. AND yes they practice together and compete together *GASP*!!! Anyway, I can assure you, that while there is the possibility that some sicko may be sexually simulated by watching a bunch of highly competitive kids swim in a SWIM SUIT (and that individual would need some serious Jesus anyway), swimming in a pair of shorts and a t-shirt covering at a competition would be simply CRAZY!!!! And I can also assure you that these kids are trained from a very young age that a swim suit serves a function-- to make you faster, sleeker in the water, ease of motion blah blah blah.

The point-- not everyone who wears a swimsuit is doing so to be sensual and sexually stimulate. Sometimes one would simply like to swim and swim well, without the constriction of shorts and a shirt.

I guess what really irritates me is that you paint such a broad stroke of judgements with your statements regarding swimwear. Believe what you will but at least be open to the possibility that you are distinctly wrong in that belief, which I do not sense in your writings regarding this subject.

[dolfan]

to equate a simple waitress with a prostitute.

Response: A simple waitress? That is a stretch for arguments sake.

I'm sure there are many Godly women working at hooters.

Let's not confuse the issue of a hooters waitress being a prospective soul to be saved and a position of honor.

Scooter, I'm slow today. I'm not sure I get the point. What's not simple about waiting tables at any restaurant? It's work like any job. But, FQ didn't give any reason to view those women as anything other than waitresses. He did just call 'em "cheap sl**ts" for wearing what they wore and working where they worked. That's a pretty big leap from the simple work of waiting tables even in tight shirts and flesh-colored hose (which, by the way, even ice skaters wear --- hey, they get medals!).

Hooters waitresses wait tables like girls at Applebee's. They don't do lap dances or swing on poles. They flirt some, but any successful waitress will wink and smile and pat a shoulder to milk tips at any restaurant. Can't I honor them for the work they do and the respect they deserve as people? I WISH I had the resume that would indicate that I'd treated them as "prospective souls to be saved"; I'm afraid I've only treated all of them everywhere as waitresses.

[Poimen]

Dear Mercy, et al,

I understand what you are saying. I want to apologize if I have said or done anything that would be wrong. I say that because I want to show I do love each of you and the Lord more than this issue. However, I honestly believe it's wrong to wear anything revealing or sensual, provocative, etc. in public by any Christian, even if it does serve a practical purpose as well. It's not the swimwear I'm against, or the practical function it can serve. It's not that I can't even come up with some etreme situation (to me) that would justify being skimply clothed in public (i.e. You see some one drowning in the river behind your house and jump in to save them). My point is that (IMO) by and large Christians are buying into a worldly mindset/practice and excusing it's immodesty (IMO) and that is wrong (IMO). It's irresponsible.

Does that reveal how strongly I feel about this subject? Yes.
Do I mean to be judging your personal walk with the Lord? No.
We all need to grow in grace and perfect holiness. But the issue itself I feel I have Christian liberty and ability to speak plainly on. We just disagree. And that happens. Sorry.


Furthermore, I feel like people may be getting offended because of this discussion. I feel I have adequately stated my case and you guys know where I stand. So I am willing to let the subject drop as a show of peace and good will. Let's just all make it to heaven, and do our best to walk pleasing before God on the way. That's the most important thing.

[RamboPreacher]

Poiman - thanks for the explanation. I understand. I don't agree, but I understand.

The challenge to me is that what is "revealing or sensual, provocative, etc" may be different for some people than it is for you. You seem to be projecting your personal paradigm on that issue to others and is, I believe, what is in question - especially when you say others are being irresponsible, when the reality is that to you it is irresponsible, but to others, it may not be. Especially in light of lack of scripture reference that directly teaches what "modesty" is.

BTW - thanks again for your mature attitude in all these posts. Love ya bro.

...do our best to walk pleasing before God on the way. That's the most important thing.

yup, through Christ who gives me strength.