Takin' the Youth to hOOters

[dolfan]

FQ and Wendy: Putting away has nothing to do with this scenario. Nothing at all. The whole discussion about a man putting a woman away, or vice versa, and causing adultery is as far from this point as the east is from the west.

We're talking about personal responsibility. FQ, you described the girls you saw at Hooters as cheap sl***s and wh***s (well, you actually said it reminded you of a wh**e house, but if the employees at one of those joints ain't wh***s, then who is?). Wendy, you said that they are what your husband called them because they are "selling sex" and that in your bible, they are causing men to lust. Then, I said that the women who wait tables there are not causing men to lust, that men cause men to lust. Wendy, you responded with something else in your bible, that women who put away a man causes him to commit adultery (which is not true; it is the marriage-again that Jesus discussed as causing adultery, and former spouses never cause their exes to remarry). You may as well have said your bible tells you to rotate your tires every 6,000 miles. It is completely beside the point, irrelevant and not even close to mattering here in this context.

A man (or woman) is tempted when he/she is drawn away of his/her own lust and enticed. That's bible. A man will give account of himself to God. That's bible. My lust is mine to own, and mine to answer for before God, and mine to split hell wide open over but for the grace of God at the cross.

Is the girl who dribbles her bodacious tatas across the floor at Hooters going to answer for her sin? You bet. Any man's lust won't be one of them. Her own evil, of whatever sort it is, is hers to answer for. If it were otherwise, the man whom the writer of Proverbs 6:24-26 (good reference, PA) warned would not need the warning to avoid the trap --- instead, he would be warned not to create a demand for the "flattering tongue" and the "eyelids" of the "whorish woman" and "adultress" described in that passage.

Finally, the beef I've got with you guys on this is not that you don't approve of Hooters. Disapprove to your heart's content. Avoid eating there, because it is obvious that you can't do so with a clean conscience. But, calling the employees "cheap sl**ts" is a despicable thing. If they were "expensive sl**ts" or "mistresses", I suppose it would've been better somehow? It was just enough of an opening in your heart to reveal your regard for these people as something less than you regard yourselves. " ...let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man... " Whatever anyone else has done, you've done. You may want to consider that.

[Pastor Bill]

We're not discussing whether shorts and tank tops are approvable. We ware discussing whether or not hooter's would be an appropriate place for a youth group dinner. Of course we have got into the why it isn't and what hooter's is really about. No need to change the facts. If you consider it an insult then so be it. It's right there in the Word and you said it wasn't. I expect it from Mike W., but I am surprised a bit from you. It's a very common verse and with all the talk of divorce and remarraige that has surfaced on J2 through the years this Scripture that Wen referred to has been used very commonly here.

OK this thread has hijacked a ways from there, and if you think that is what we are all arguing for then you are mistaken. Only 1 person said they had ever done this, and only 2 others even thought it would be OK.

I personally chose (and have stated) that I don't think it's a good idea for a youth event.

What the discussion has come to now is how you feel in general that the waitresses are _______ and prostituting on the sides.

It's not a place job I would recommend, and as a christian, I would advise against it, but I can't say that it's any more sinful than what I've seen at other restaurants, nor other jobs.

I also don't feel that it is inherantly sinful for a person to eat there, though the atmosphere isn't what most of us are looking for, the two times I have been the waitresses I have had have done nothing inappropriate, and were more covered than in some other restaurants I have seen that don't have the reputation.

The fact is yes, sex sells, and if you want to avoid companies that use that, you will almost need to become Amish. Is this a place I would seek out? no, would I have a problem eating there, no. Would I sit and drewl over the girls and encourage them to do things that are inappropriate, no. so what's the big deal? the second time I went (of course this shows the first time there wasn't an issue) I had my children and wife with me. We enjoyed a meal, (their key lime pie is excellent, and the reason we went there was Rose wanted to try it) I didn't feel ashamed to be there, and there was nothing going on that was inappropriate around my kids. The waitress (as well as a few other waitresses) came over and played with the kids, but they were not flirtatious with me (at least not that I noticed) and even my wife was comfortable there. I'm sorry if this was not your experience, but to slam anyone who works there, or eats there isn't fair either.

On a side note, the night we were there, it was "biker night" and any stereotypes can go right out the window with your attitude on Hooters, the place was packed and nothing as sleezy as you want to make it out happened at all from what I saw.

[dbserv]

What I said was that if you continue in your ways and die lost therefore soending eternity in hell then your mother would have probably wished that you had never been born. I would feel the same way if one of my children wound up in hell.

FQ:

You are making assumptions about another person's relationship with Christ that I don't feel is appropriate. I do not believe that we are to judge one another in this way, especially in public.

For the record, I believe that I'maPK has a better relationship with the Lord than many other participants here on J2. I know his heart and I know where he is coming from.

I realize that he may not even agree with me. But, I believe it to be true.

[Pastor Bill]

For the record, I believe that I'maPK has a better relationship with the Lord than many other participants here on J2. I know his heart and I know where he is coming from.

I realize that he may not even agree with me. But, I believe it to be true.

A more honest relationship definately, even if it isn't submissive. I even wonder if it's that honesty that makes him feel he's not ready to accept Christ's forgiveness, that he knows he can't live perfectly, and doesn't want to be false.

There's alot about that to respect, even while we still pray he'll get past it and accept Christ's forgiveness and acceptance of him just as he is.

[scooter]

You are making assumptions about another person's relationship with Christ that I don't feel is appropriate. I do not believe that we are to judge one another in this way, especially in public.

For the record, I believe that I'maPK has a better relationship with the Lord than many other participants here on J2. I know his heart and I know where he is coming from.

I realize that he may not even agree with me. But, I believe it to be true.

Response: Are you making more of, and the same type of an assumption about message board participants than one would be about public behavior?

[ImaPK]

For the record, I believe that I'maPK has a better relationship with the Lord than many other participants here on J2. I know his heart and I know where he is coming from.

I realize that he may not even agree with me. But, I believe it to be true.

A more honest relationship definately, even if it isn't submissive. I even wonder if it's that honesty that makes him feel he's not ready to accept Christ's forgiveness, that he knows he can't live perfectly, and doesn't want to be false.

There's alot about that to respect, even while we still pray he'll get past it and accept Christ's forgiveness and acceptance of him just as he is.

Thanks Bill...it's that honesty that keeps this lying resident sinner of J2 from responding to FQ's post...I said I would ignore him and I will even though I am a liar ...of course FQ knows me so well

[TW]

When I walked through the door I was surrounded by "cheap sl**ts". Don't get me wrong, I know they don't serve up sex per se (though many probably do after hours) but they do alot for their tips I'm sure. I told the gals I was there to pick up a to go order. For some reason I get the feeling that experience was somewhat like being at a whore house. Maybe someone can tell me if it's so. The wings and the cajun shrimp were great but I felt like I needed a bath when I left there. Shocked

Now at what point did I generalize and include every Hooter's girl? I don't reckon I'll ever hear even a remote sign of an apology for saying I did. I spoke of my experience at the local Hooter's in Murfreesboro. Did I mention the girls you know Yellow Rose?

True most likely the Hooter's employees need salvation as does all regenaerate mankind. I doubt much soul saving is going on while sitting at the table and gobbling down wings. If you are truly interested in the souls then go door to door like they did in the book of Acts and you will eventually find them at home where you can present the Gospel to them. If that's not your thing then pray and the lord can lead you to them.


It doesn't take a Bible scholar to know what verse Wendy was speaking of. It just takes a Bible reader. Believe me, it's not hid in the prophecies, laws, history, and geaneologies of the Old Text. It's right there in Matthew. It says the man that puts away (divorces) his wife causes her to committ adultery. It goes both ways however so the woman that puts away the husband causes him to committ adultery. Does it say hooter's girls cause men to committ adultery? Nope! Does it prove that someone can cause another to committ adultery? Absolutely!!!

However, I can find nothing that places any of the blame upon the woman being lusted after. Sorry gcats.

The WORD says causeth thus implying fault or blame to some extent.



Thank you Scooter for your honesty though you could come under the same fire as me. You may not completely agree with my wording or statements but I do believe you agree with the fact that Hooter's is about selling sex. The wings are just ala carte!



BTW, when God said Israel was backsliding or backslidden did He generalize and thus include all the Jews? When He said they had committ whoredom was He meaning that each and every soul was guilty of such? When the Lord said Israel had sinned against Him did that mean there was no righteous in Israel?


Steve, where are you at? Did you start this thread to incite or to discuss?

Color highlighted by TW

When you used the word they!!!

Webster's New World Basic Dictionary of American English defines they as -

they pron.
1 - the persons, animals, or things that are being talked about [ The players knew that they had won. Put the keys where they belong.]
2 - people in general [They say it can happen.]

The word, they, is inclusive. When you used it, it implied all the Hooters Girls.

FQ, please go back and read my post again, I think that you will find that I cited Mt. 5:28

Mt. 5:28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultry with her in his heart.

NIV

The problem here is that you are trying to somehow connect that verse with Mt. 5:31-32. Totally different topic. A Bible reader should be able to understand that in the fifth capter of Matthew, Jesus, is stating the "bullet points" of his doctrine. He starts with the Beatitudes and then touches on 17 other topics. You are taking scripture out of context.


TW

[Full Quiver]

Dan, I know Mike's family. i attend church with his brother and his family. They say he is lost. I think they would know better than you.


TW and whomever else, The Spirit of God led the Lord into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. So therefore one can be tempted by another being. Women do tempt men and men do tempt women. The Scripture says to not tempt the lord thy God. How can that be? You guys are saying man only tempts himself. We are tempted when we are drawn away of our own lust. Hooter girls tend to draw in that direction.

Scooter, though I have not always thought so I do see wisdom and truth in much of what you say as well as plently of common sense. I know we don't always agree and may not toally agree on this subject, but I do respect you.

[TW]

FQ, Go back and read the thread, no one has said that "man only tempts hi,self." What was said is that LUST is a man own sin, he is responsible for it, he will have to answer to God for it. Not the object of his lust, but HIM! Now, the temptress has to answer for her own sins.

The only reason that I became involved in this thread is that you made some blanket statements that were judgmental about people that you had no previous knowledge of. Some of the Hooters girls may be guilty of what you said, but not all. To many it's just their job. I've seen as much "flirting" in other restaurants as I have seen in Hooters, yet you have not made any judgmental remarks about those waitresses.

Yes, Hooters plays up the sexual theme, no denying that. But that's "marketing" and all you have to do to see the same thing is turn on your TV. In our cultural we are bombarded with adds that tell you that if you use this or drive that you will be more appealing to the opposite sex. The people that write adds appeal to the sin nature in all of us to sell alot of their products. The whole object is to get you to buy their product, and "sex sells!"

You lamented that you probably wouldn't get an apology.

Now at what point did I generalize and include every Hooter's girl? I don't reckon I'll ever hear even a remote sign of an apology for saying I did.

The truth is that you don't deserve an apology because, that is what you did say. But yet, we have not heard an admission of that, nor a retraction.


TW

[Full Quiver]

Women don't cause men to lust; men cause men to lust.

Hey TW, remeber this? You actually quoted it and commented a couple of pages back.

[ImaPK]

Hey Dan(dbsrv), you and Brenda have been married how many years now?...isn't that about the same time I met you?...and Brenda(Dan's wife) I've known you since we were what, 6 or 7?...and wasn't my dad at in your wedding?...and Brenda(Dan's wife) didn't you hold my brother Tim when he was baby once or twice?...hey Doris ain't you been knowing Tim's wife all of her life?...and Panhandler were you not a groomsman in my first wedding?...and TW have we not worked together for the last eleven years?...and gcats I once held you as a baby...and Dr Ron I've known you for 30+ years...I'm sure there are others on here that I've known for years and they have known me for just as long...they all know me for various reasons, both good and bad...but one thing they can all say about me is that I have never hid my life as a sinner...I have stated in "Roll Call" on J2 that I'm a sinner...I have stated on various threads the same thing...I have never been a member of any church let alone join one and then get mad at my pastor and go join another splinter group and then get mad at my overseer and come back to the first one (maybe not to rejoin but to attend)... I don't "waffle" on my "stands"...TW will be the first to tell you that when I screw up I admit it and do what I can to correct it...Danny Page I'll make you a deal...you leave me and mine alone on J2 and I'll leave you and yours alone in return...as a sinner I'm offering you a "olive branch"...if you choose not to accept then that shows the Christian that you are...I make no excuses about my "walk" in sin...show J2 your "walk" in Christ...the ball's in your court.

[Ilovebigcats]

I'll leave you and yours alone in return

You better leave me alone or I'll beat you down old man.

[ImaPK]

I'll leave you and yours alone in return

You better leave me alone or I'll beat you down old man.

Sweetheart(and you truly are) I ain't never had a cross word with you that I can recall...you remind me too much of your mother(and that's a good thing )

[Worshipn4ever]

I sat here thinking "I'm not going to post" but by the time I got to page 6 I realized...Y'ALL!!! You're not only bashing these women that work there...but also each other. CHILL!!!

Yes some men can walk in there and it not faze them...others...well...

Yeah sure the extra flirting mood goes on because you can do it without getting critized (from their bosses) while working there...but TRUST me...I've been in resturants where they have to wear button up shirts to the top and if they can tell the guy is a flirt...they WILL add the "charm" (aka flirtatouness) to get the tip. GEEZ!!! You all have obviously never eaten with my father at a resturant! The man flirts...it's rather funny...he doesn't think he's flirting...and he's really not...he's just...well...my dad. he's just "extremely friendly"

Now to the original question...no I would not take my youth group there. I know my boys are horny...I know women are their weekness. I will NOT do anything to feed that.

As far as the Victoria's Secret comment...I get a rash when I walk into that place...it's about as bad as me walking into Books A Million...bad rash...hives...not good. That's just my personal opinion b/c I think anything that's on my body that ain't cotton, is of satan.

Furthermore...think before you speak...or in Jude2 case...think before you type. Don't place judgement...unless you are ready to cast the first stone...and are you? If so...wow. Hit me with your best shot. Because I know I shoulda been stoned to death long time ago for my screw ups. Praise God that He is merciful, forgiving, and loves me no matter my fault. How we need to learn those things...

OH...and about the mixed bathing...Just don't put a bar of soap in the pool...

[ImaPK]

Worshipn4ever said

OH...and about the mixed bathing...Just don't put a bar of soap in the pool

And if you've ever seen the movie "Caddyshack" don't put a Baby Ruth candy bar in the pool either