Church Growth / Pastor Jealousy Poll

Rhett · Postby **Rhett** » April 15th, 2006, 8:43 am

I know a pastor who gets mad when he sees another church has been growing and being blessed of the Lord. He just cannot understand why anyone would go to church anywhere but at his church.

Is this a problem all pastors struggle with? Or is this guy the exception?

What sayeth ye?

Blended · Postby **Blended** » April 15th, 2006, 12:23 pm

Baptist/COGOP wrote:I know a pastor who gets mad when he sees another church has been growing and being blessed of the Lord. He just cannot understand why anyone would go to church anywhere but at his church.

Is this a problem all pastors struggle with? Or is this guy the exception?

What sayeth ye?

I am excited and celebrate when others are growing especially when they are growing with new believer growth/

I have pity on churches that are just growing from transfer growth cause one day it will turn and go elsewhere.

Rhett · Postby **Rhett** » April 15th, 2006, 1:28 pm

Blended,

Sadly, most of the growth I have seen people get all excited about is from transfer growth when another church busts up or something...

I couldn't foresee myself being angry. I would probably have to look at myself and see if maybe there was something I was doing that was hindering the work at hand.

I might feel some concern if the church that was growing was a cult or some sort of wacko liberal establishment where the Word is not rightly taught, but not outright anger because God is growing another New Testament church instead of the one I was pastoring.

I think God will only trust a man with just so many of his sheep. This particular pastor I am thinking of has a habit of lording over God's heritage and abusing the sheep in his care.... IMHO it is no wonder why his church is not growing

Postby **Pastor Gary** » April 15th, 2006, 3:05 pm

Baptist/COGOP wrote:I think God will only trust a man with just so many of his sheep. This particular pastor I am thinking of has a habit of lording over God's heritage and abusing the sheep in his care.... IMHO it is no wonder why his church is not growing

He is not just jealous of the church growth -- he can't understand how another Pastor can attract and keep people without intimidation and control.

You said "I think God will only trust a man with just so many of his sheep." Old Brother M.S. Curry used to say "There's 50 member pastors and 150 member pastors. You give a 150 member pastor a church with 50 and he'll go find him 100 more. You give a 50 member pastor a church with 150 and he'll run 100 of them off."

A lot of wisdom in that.

Rhett · Postby **Rhett** » April 15th, 2006, 3:22 pm

A lot of wisdom in that.

Yes there is!

Kenya · Postby **Kenya** » April 15th, 2006, 4:11 pm

This totally defeats our whole purpose of existing. I feel very sorry for this man....I wonder how he will handle Heaven.

rev rick · Postby **rev rick** » April 15th, 2006, 4:53 pm

If THE LORD fills every church in town, and mine is the the very last. I am glad to do what I can, I will work for HIM. ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, ANYWAY, HIS INCREASE IS MY DESIRE. IN CHRIST LOVE Rev Rick

Jennifer Smith · Postby **Jennifer Smith** » April 16th, 2006, 9:25 am

I totally agree with Rev Rick. I want the Lord to give us the people He feels we can handle.
But, i will tell you one thing that aggravated just a little! We visited a church in "the ville" KY for a TL Lowery conference, fine, great. But the pastor, who was a young guy, just immature probably, said he didn't mind stealing sheep because they grow greener grass. (The grass is always greener, etc.) I feel that we should keep our grass green and our sheep well fed. But for a special service with other churches invited, I felt the comment was inappropriate. I also felt that this particular tactic was a bit underhanded: they had a "promotion" for the month of april, a Disney trip drawing, each time a person attended they received an entry and had to attend today (Easter Sunday) to be eligible to win. That's rather sneaky sheep stealing if you ask me! :shock:

TW · Postby TW » April 16th, 2006, 10:19 am

Jennifer Smith wrote:I totally agree with Rev Rick. I want the Lord to give us the people He feels we can handle.
But, i will tell you one thing that aggravated just a little! We visited a church in "the ville" KY for a TL Lowery conference, fine, great. But the pastor, who was a young guy, just immature probably, said he didn't mind stealing sheep because they grow greener grass. (The grass is always greener, etc.) I feel that we should keep our grass green and our sheep well fed. But for a special service with other churches invited, I felt the comment was inappropriate. I also felt that this particular tactic was a bit underhanded: they had a "promotion" for the month of april, a Disney trip drawing, each time a person attended they received an entry and had to attend today (Easter Sunday) to be eligible to win. That's rather sneaky sheep stealing if you ask me!

That makes it sound like a bad TV game show - "Let's Make a Deal With God." "Whats behind door number 1?" As far as I know God doesn't make deals. That makes me sick! If God's Word isn't good enough for them, then they aren't really saved.

That is my $.02 worth.

Your brother in Christ,
TW

Full Quiver · Postby **Full Quiver** » April 16th, 2006, 5:45 pm

My answer is no, but not that it has anything to do with all being one, big, happy family.

rspastor · Postby **rspastor** » April 17th, 2006, 2:30 am

I've always taken the stand that if we give thanks for the blessings given to others then we in turn are blessed. I've never felt jealous over the success of other churches, even if their success involved some of my people. And, every time, without question, God brings new people into my church. I even testify to our congregation when I know of particular blessings in other churches so that our people can rejoice with them. God always honors humility and selflessness.

Pastor Bill · Postby **Pastor Bill** » April 17th, 2006, 5:35 am

If God chose to save the entire town and send them all down the street to another church, I'd still be tickled to death. It's not about me as a pastor, it's not about our church, it's about the lost being saved, and Christ being King. Lose sight of that, and you really shouldn't be in the pulpit.

Dr. Ron · Postby **Dr. Ron** » April 17th, 2006, 6:46 am

Oh well, here I go again.

I knew M. S. Curry very well and I know he spoke in the context of the COGOP pastors under his authority........and he was right about them in that era. I DON'T agree with him at all in the climate and culture of this day. The reason there were 50 member pastors and 150 member pastors was largely due to the man's willingness or unwillingness to be taught. Many of those who stalemated at 50 would not be considered for being a small group leader in a church today. I mean no disrespect, but when someone could give a good "firey" testimony he got called , liscensed , and sent out soon. It was terrible. But they were all about getting new churches. Bro. Currey also used to give a new suit to any district overseer who got a new church in his district that year. He was a promoter of the first order. I loved him, but his tactics and advice would not and do not work today.

As for sheep stealing, there is no excuse for poor pastoral ethics. That has happened so often even within the ranks of a particular denomination. One church gets the pastor someone else wanted and they just transfer from one to the other to get what they want. I have a rule that when someone comes here from another group, they must have had a meeting with their pastor and made their separation properly. I do know this, the way you get them is the way they will leave you. If they left on bad terms, be cautious.

I think that God will grow a church that is healty. Healthy bodies grow. Some churches grow in spite of a poor pastor. The largest church in GOGOP for years was Brecksville Ohio. It literally grew in spite of the pastor. He was not a great preacher...............basically a "praise God, hah" type guy, but he loved people and he had a healthy program for them and it grew. Again, God grows the church.......he likes them to be strong and healthy...........and yes large. But remember, large is a subjective term.

I just want the people in my area of influence to hear about the saving grace of Jesus. God will give us the increase. It is our job to be the best we can and do the best we can................then let God!

dolfan · Postby **dolfan** » April 17th, 2006, 1:13 pm

Pastor at First Wesleyan Church in Northport, Alabama did something every Sunday morning that stays with me: During his opening prayer, he mentioned another church in town by name, a different one each week, and specifically asked God to bless them. That just hit me as 100% class. The guy had been on John Maxwell's staff at Skyline in San Diego. We went there for about 6-8 months before moving back to north AL. Good guy, can't remember his name!

dbserv · Postby **dbserv** » April 17th, 2006, 1:20 pm

I don't care where God gives the increase, and neither do our pastors.

In fact, when someone comes to our church for the first time, they are contacted by phone and "interviewed" about our service, likes & dislikes, about why they chose to visit us, etc. Some of the questions have to do with previous church attendance. If they are from another local church and if they are there for something besides a special service (their friend's baby got dedicated), then one of our pastors contacts them to see what their intentions are.

If they express an interest in staying at our church, then our pastors ask them to go with them and meet with their former pastor to make sure that the former pastor is aware of their desire and to see if they can be reconciled to their former church instead of "hopping" to our church.

Church hoppers don't help any church who is interested in ministry instead of numbers. We do our best to discourage church hoppers from coming to our services.

Jude 2