COGOP Members ONLY on this one!

[ImaPK]

Gary

I think I can understand what jns is saying...let me see if this makes sense

I attended the Assembly in 1993 when the jewelry issue was discussed and changed...bear with me now...I felt both betrayed and vindicated...vindicated because even growing up in COGOP I didn't agree with the wedding band thing...betrayed because I felt I had heard this for so long that now it was ok and I had not been able to give my first wife a ring during the marriage ceremony...not quite the same as jns but similar in emotions involved with her I'm sure....sorta like if you suspect that your spouse were cheating on you when you find out for sure you feel both of those emotions and then you feel anger...does that make sense to you?

[jnsbray]

BINGO!!! That is it on the nail.

[Pastor Gary]

You are confussed, you have no clue.

Yeah. Probably.

I had to leave my husband because of Violence and possible fatal endings (to me and my son)

Glad you left him. Nobody should put their life or the life of their children in jeopardy.

I was the one that was wronged, and shunned.

Yes, and may I ask you to forgive us? We --COGOP-- did many things in the past with the best of intentions, but out of ignorance. I, for one, am so sorry for the way you were treated that I am working as hard as I can to see that we never do that to another young woman in her time of crisis!

Therefore I got on with my life in seeking happiness and love.I was disfellowshipped for something that is Okay now...

But, you see, the problem is, many of us think you were WRONGLY disfellowshipped for running for your life. I know your heart must go out to other young women who now walk in your shoes. God help us to quit adding more insult to injury and live out the Spirit of James the 1st Chapter -- let us defend the defenseless!

Yet growing up, the teachings of CoGoP was pounded into my head.

How very sad that is to hear. Not the truth of God's Word, but the traditions of men were pounded into your head.

Now it is Okay for the church to change the beliefs?

We have been "changing our beliefs" for years and years, and I am sure glad. I like a piece of gum now and then (formerly restricted), enjoy a cold Coke or Pepsi on a hot day (formerly prohibited), served in the U.S. Army in Vietnam (formerly prohibited) and on it goes. We used to teach "perfection of the Church;" how on earth could anyone expect to perfect something without changing it, without correcting its flaws?

I was told that it is okay for me and my family to be a part, and with knowing how I was raised, my concience is telling me that the roof would fall on me...

That is so sad. I am so sorry we did that to you!

I maybe in the wrong for me being in double marriage because of the beliefs of when I was a child.

That's between you and God. I am not here to tell you what you should or shouldn't have done... but I will say the very fact that you use a non-Biblical term so associated with COGOP doctrine ("double marriage") says volumes.

I chose the road I live, because God has Blessed me with descency.

Okay.

The church turned on me, and now they are welcoming us with open arms.

Well, which way would you prefer it? You sound angry that you were shunned and now angry because you are being welcomed? Pick one.

I am not a Hypercrit.

Good for you.

I will not return to where I was once an outcast, and I think the church is becoming something it shouldn't become.

Right there is where you lose me every time. We did you wrong, okay? And now we are saying "SORRY!" and asking you to come back and try us now that we understand things a little better. That is a GOOD thing.

[PastorMichael]

[quote]

jnsbray,
Like Pastor Gary, I too am a bit confussed. You are 100% correct in saying "marriage is a sacred thing." You also said that "love between a man and a woman is a gift from God". Based on what you have said concerning your present marriage, I'm led to believe that you love your present husband. My question is how could you believe that your love for your husband is a gift from God and still believe that you are in a sinful marriage. It could not be both.

I would also like to respond to what was "drilled" into your head. Being raised as a PK with a strong COGOP heritage, (mother, father, all four grandparents, aunts and uncles as members with one grandfather being an overseer for many many years) I can say that I understand what you mean. There are two types of people in this organization and I suppose in all denominations. One group accepts what is preached and taught without ever getting a confirmation from the Holy Spirit as to the accuracy of the message. Others (me included) accept nothing without having the Holy Spirit confirm it personally. It is a sad thing to say but there was a day in which some in leadership (pastors, etc.) demanded blind allegiance and obedience. I am glad to say that no one in my family demanded this of me. To follow blindly makes one a prisoner of another persons thoughts and understanding. Its those prisoners who suffer the pain, anguish, and frustration associated with a "drilled in mentality". If one truly finds their place in Christ Jesus they can experience a freedom from yesterdays bondage. I could be wrong, but it seems to me that yesterdays influence holds sway over a great part of your life. Yes, even to the point of hindering you from having the wonderful gift that Jesus has waiting.

BE FREE IN JESUS NAME!
Pastor Michael

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[ImaPK]

Well said Michael

[jnsbray]

Pastor Gary
I am not angry at the fact of being disfellowshipped.
I am quite PLEASED in my journey with the LORD.
I never once although I believe it was a subject in a reply to a statement I made that someone that has been Divorced and Remarried could not be saved, I feel in my heart that I am saved :D .
I am in total disagreement with the CoGoP changing it's teachings to fit Society, and becoming so Liberated is just opening doors to other problems and situations.
I feel that I would be a HYPERCRIT (which I am not) if I were (which I am not) to return to CoGoP.
I feel that it is a slap in the face of the Church and it's history.
It saddens me to see that the world (Satan) has even the slightest bit of control and foothold in the Church .
I grew up in Ohio under some wonderful ministers, and I do not feel anger towards the way I was raised and taught, my anger is upon the votes being made to let society have control of making the rulings of "Yes, it is ok to be remarried, you are more than welcome" even though it has been in the teachings that this is wrong.
Had my father disfellowshipped me, I would not have been angry with him, because I knew it would have been the right thing to do in the eyes of the Lord.
I cannot and will not ever accept the fact that I could regain a membership once again just because it's ok now. Now even those in double marriage can even hold an office in the church.
NO, This is not right!!!
I knew when the rings were brought out, that it would lead to such matters as this, it was just a matter of time and now that time has come.
This change should not happen, the world should not be in control!

[Kenya]

I am in total disagreement with the CoGoP changing it's teachings to fit Society, and becoming so Liberated is just opening doors to other problems and situations.

What if.....COGOP is not changing the teaching to fit society as much as our leadership have studied and sought God over the issue and HE has changed their perspective? What if HE has told them that HIS grace and mercy covers a multitude of sins - even "that" one? What if HE has told them "I love and accept them into MY family, why can't you?"

[Gerald Creasy]

I feel that I would be a HYPERCRIT (which I am not) if I were (which I am not) to return to CoGoP.
I feel that it is a slap in the face of the Church and it's history.
It saddens me to see that the world (Satan) has even the slightest bit of control and foothold in the Church .

Doesn't it strike anyone as extremely odd the number of people who get on here, have no plans to ever attend the COGOP again, and yet rant and rave and froth about how they hate to see the COGOP go down hill???

If YOU DON'T WANT TO BE PART OF IT, WHY DO YOU CARE!???

(Yes, I'm yelling!)

[jnsbray]

Well, I am yelling back for those I care about, and to the fact that CoGoP is becoming to worldly. I may never again be a member of CoGoP, yet my father is still pastoring, and it saddens me to see him troubled by this...

Gerald Creasy stated:
"Doesn't it strike anyone as extremely odd the number of people who get on here, have no plans to ever attend the COGOP again, and yet rant and rave and froth about how they hate to see the COGOP go down hill???

If YOU DON'T WANT TO BE PART OF IT, WHY DO YOU CARE!???

(Yes, I'm yelling!)

I care about my loved ones that are troubled by this matter... All of the pastorial friends I have made because of my being a PK... This is just a plain worldly mess... (There I said it) A WORLDLY MESS!!!

[ImaPK]

I think I can relate to jns as well as anyone in here...I was living in Cleveland from 1985 through 1994(with a 6 month break in 87-88 while in Oregon) so I had a front row seat to alot of what happened...when I did go to church it was usually at Peerless Road COGOP...I count among my friends and acquaintances many of the leadership(both past and current) at COGOP HQ...those that I know also know that I have never been a member and that I did not always see eye to eye with them on doctrine so I think that made some comfortable with talking to me despite the fact of who my dad was...before the ring issue was brought up I was used as a sounding board by some who were leaning toward approval to see what I-being a PK-thought about it...now I'm just a dumb hillbilly but I know some were trying to glean info about how my dad might feel but I always told everyone I spoke with that what I said was my opinion and no one elses...in 92 when the issue was passed I was angry not so much for the ring thing but because a way of life I had known for 31 years was changing...I'm not judging the merits for or against change just stating how I felt...prior to the "concerned" meeting I was again used as a sounding board by both sides...I guess because of things I said, AFTER the meeting I was shunned by some on BOTH sides(GREAT CHRISTIAN ATTITUDE )...for the next two years(before I moved to Nashville)I went from sad to angry and back to sad and back to angry and back to sad ya know a roller coaster...I worked at the largest grocery store in Cleveland so I came in contact with those on both sides and it was actually funny at times...some from COGOP would come in and in spite of having not talked to them about the split they acted almost embarressed and would go out of their way to avoid me...why I don't know but that was the feeling I got...I had some from TCOG come in and-because my dad was pastoring the Westmoreland COGOP-would give me dirty looks and make snide remarks that they knew I would hear...keep in mind yall I HAVE NEVER BEEN A MEMBER OF ANY ORGANIZATION but I actually felt sorry for both sides...why you ask?...to me it reminded me of the history of America's own Civil War...I saw men and women that I had known for years struggling with their decisions of who to believe was right and who was wrong...I saw families torn apart with some family members staying with COGOP and some going with TCOG and believe me it wasn't always the grownups going with TCOG and the kids staying with COGOP...I saw husbands going one way and wives going the other...like I said it was a roller coaster for me-a sinner...did I pick sides?...I like to think I didn't...was I angry?...yes I was...at the attitude that was shown to me by some on both sides....was I sad?...yes I was....again at the attitude that was shown to me by some on both sides...Is COGOP the "real" Church?...is TCOG the "real" Church?...I ask you all...DOES IT MATTER?...is the church going to get you to Heaven? Christ said to "serve me"...I hate to pop alot of prideful bubbles in here but...CHRIST WILL GET YOU TO HEAVEN...like jns I too am troubled by all that has happened(and yes Gerald I'm an outsider too) but for the last 43 years of my life one or the other of the ORGANIZATIONS have either directly or indirectly been a part of my life and it pains me to see the infighting in my "spiritual" family...I have no scriptures to base my feelings on because they ARE feelings...I have my opinions on all of this but that's ALL they are...OPINIONS...we can sling mud and call names and whatever else we want to do but in the end GOD WILL SORT IT OUT...sorry if I step on toes but I think the bottom line is that BOTH sides should stop the fighting with each other and start fighting for the lost souls that are out there...not to join a particular ORGANIZATION but to join God's Church that will be caught up at the Rapture...I await the pummeling that is sure to come from some

[scooter]

This is just a plain worldly mess... (There I said it) A WORLDLY MESS!!!

Response: Actually I think you've got that backwards. It is a Churchy mess. If we woukdn't have been SOOOOO churchy it wouldn't be sooooo messy. Now would it.

[Gerald Creasy]

Well, I am yelling back for those I care about, and to the fact that CoGoP is becoming to worldly. I may never again be a member of CoGoP, yet my father is still pastoring, and it saddens me to see him troubled by this...

And also

I care about my loved ones that are troubled by this matter...

Yet apparantly you do not care enough for your dear troubled father to
"return" to the COGOP. Or, if I read your first message correctly, even live according to the "doctrine" he preaches.

I feel that I would be a HYPERCRIT (which I am not) if I were (which I am not) to return to CoGoP.

So WE are the one's that should be concerned because your father is troubled, and not you yourself.

Your character becomes more interesting the more you post.

[jnsbray]

My Character is not in question :!: :!: :!:
I am not one wanting to push my way through the doors of CoGoP either.
I know how I live, and I know where I stand with the Lord, and I will be the one to answer for my actions, why would I want to be a blemish on the church by joining somewhere that was against me belonging after D/R in the first place:?: :?: :?:
It is against the teachings, and it should remain that way!!!
Why do people want to change things to fit the their own needs:?:
Yes, I care about my father and the way that he worries. No, I do not entend to change either... My father loves me and my husband very much. I have several personal friends in his local congregation, yet I would never consider trying to join, because I know that the church teaches against it.
I would like to say that I have seen people disfellowshipped for sowing discord in the local church. Wouldn't this be listed as sowing discord throughout the entire church :?: :?: :?: (just a question, not a statement, but if it isn't, it should be)
Living the way I do, I still feel deeply in my heart that this should not come about...
Just because you are in D/R does not mean that you cannot be saved or have a close walk with the Lord, and to me joining the church that teaches against it is just making a show...

[Pastor Gary]

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

This lady was alienated (wrongly, IMHO) from COGOP over her marital situation, yet...
• She confesses salvation,
• Says her husband is a fine man loved by her COGOP Pastor father,
• YET, she doesn't want us (COGOP) to correct the inequities of our position so we never harm another like she was harmed.

She can't see the blatant inconsistency of her position, and clings to the notion that the church she no longer belongs to should remain as it was when she was disfellowshipped.

Cleopatra wasn't the only Queen of Denial.

[Pastor Bill]

Just because you are in D/R does not mean that you cannot be saved or have a close walk with the Lord

This is just the point, current CoGoP teaching is that if you are in D/R you can not be considered saved.

I personally feel that this is untrue biblically, as you seem to by your statement above, as do many CoGoP pastors and leaders. If this is biblically untrue, and we know it is untrue, should we consider it better to continue teaching something false, or should we correct our stand on the issue?